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Is this Father Fish inspired aquarium doomed?

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15K views 13 replies 14 participants last post by  Reginald2  
#1 ·
Not new to the hobby, and in the past, did "play" with Walstad-inspired tanks and bowls quite successfully. Several months ago, started watching Father Fish' videos, and five days ago (3/28/24), I put together my very first Father Fish-inspired 10 gallon tank. As I later learned, I made a huge mistake by going with Father Fish' older video, in which his recommendation about the content of the dirt is COMPLETELY OFF from his "updated" list today

As I later learned--too late for me, sadly--his "new, updated" list calls for zero compost, zero "snail food" and MUCH less baking soda (in this video above, he uses 1 cup of baking soda per 55 gallon while his current recommendation calls for 1 tablespoon per 100 gallon). So, going by his 4y.o. video--which he clearly was too busy to delete or correct... something I find to be very irresponsible and can't help being very angry about--it would have been 8.7 teaspoons per 10 gallon tank (since there are 16 tablespoons / 48 teaspoons in 1 cup). So, when I put in 5 teaspoons, it felt like "being conservative", "being on the safe side". Instead, going by his "updated list", I am leaps and bounds ABOVE the recommended amount (my tap water here in Arizona is hard as it is). Plus, at least 25% of my dirt is compost, some fish flakes (instead of snail food that he was using in his video), bone meal, also some spirulina powder... so LOTS of organics :(.

Today is day 5. I have a LOT of "pocket spaces" building in the sand layer of the substrate, creating large "cracks". When I pock through the sand with planting tweezers, huge bubbles of gas with a strong odor of rotten eggs (sulfur) come up to the surface. How normal or abnormal is this? My understanding is this being produced by “sulfur bacteria” as the result of decomposition of organics. From what I am reading, “sulfur bacteria” can produce "slime" that feeds other types of bacteria. It does seem like a problematic scenario that can easily lead to bacterial bloom. This sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is this aquarium doomed or there is still hope? Getting it redone is really out of question at this time. Obviously, I will not be putting any fish into this sulfur-burping mess of a tank until and if I am able to stabilize it.

What can I do--if anything--to help this tank be viable long term? Thanks so much in advance!
 

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#2 ·
I can’t advise about all those additives. I know I’ve seen some people using worm castings, but I don’t know about all that other stuff.
I would suggest leaving Father Fish behind. I would pull the plants out and the top couple of inches of sand. Then discard the bottom layer. Put the 2 inches of sand back in and replant it. It shouldn’t be too hard.
Then use a weekly all-in-one fertilizer. Add a filter. Sponge filters are cheap and easy if you’re on a tight budget. Do water changes every 1-2 weeks. Be sure to cycle the tank before adding fish. Probably not what you want to hear, but since you haven’t had other replies yet, I figure my two cents might help.
 
#3 ·
As Kwyet mentions, father fish is not well thought of on this forum, or frankly most other places where tanks are kept to a certain standard (anything above bare minimum).

Father fish has risen to fame by espousing a very very very low maintenance approach to fish keeping and planted tanks. The proof however is in the pudding, or to put it another way, don't trust someone's advice until you see their tank. The father fish tanks that are more then a few months old are all disasters. Dirt tanks are slightly cheaper then aquasoil tanks, but that's where the advantages end. As you are unfortunately finding out they have dramatic drawbacks.

So here is what I would do if I were you.

I would get a plastic dust pan (like what you use to sweep the floor) and drain your tank then use the dust pan to remove every bit of substrate and toss it in the trash. Rinse down the inside of the tank to get any residue, and then start over. If you want sand, then use pool filter sand (it's cheap and doesn't need to be washed) or play sand if you want to save a few dollars and don't mind washing it a lot. Then rebuild the tank with any plants you managed to salvage.

I would buy an all in one fertilizer for your plant nutrients like Nilocg Thrive or Aquarium Co-Op Easy Green. Add that per package directions once a week after a 50% water change. Since you will be changing water on the regular get a water change system of some type like a python (or a clone) or use a pump.

Regarding better youtubers, I would try George Farmer, or Green Aqua for higher end builds or Aquapros for lower end builds. Good luck.
 
#4 ·
The info that Father Fish dispenses sounds just like the instructions that I was given when I started keeping fish 65 years ago. We have progressed since then. I would also recommend removing everything from the tank and starting over.

Rather than a dustpan, it may be easier for you to remove at least part of the substrate with a square flower pot of the type that you get at a nursery and usually filled with bedding plants. Water will run out the holes in the bottom of the pot and at least some of your substrate will stay in the pot for removal. After you get most of everything out of the tank, you can carry the tank (10 gal, should be easy) out into your yard and hose it out.
 
#5 ·
Sorry about your issues. I don't do these types of setups because of the very issues you are experiencing now and I too would just do a simple sand or aquasoil substrate. I'll be setting one up for my sister here very shortly.
 
#6 ·
I have several tanks with deep substrate that I started after seeing a few of his videos. However, I don't follow his "recipe." I have cattle, so I went out to the barn with a shovel and got some dry manure mixed with dirt, put 1" in the bottom of the tank, and capped it with 2" of pool filter sand. Plants grow well, but I still do regular water changes (or semi-regular, if I'm being honest) and I fertilize at least once a week, and usually twice.

I frequently pull plants up to sell or move to another tank, which of course pulls some of the dirt up on top. It just lies there and doesn't cloud the water, but of course it doesn't look very nice. Because of that, I probably wouldn't do it again for my working tanks, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it in display tanks.
 
#8 ·
In addition to the solid YouTubers mentioned above and the method of checking to see if they've had tanks set up long-term with any sort of success, there's something else you may find helpful: Look for YouTubers who aren't constantly trying to sell you something or who aren't using products that are nothing more than paid promotions. That will help you weed out some of the worst offenders. It'll also help you find everyday hobbyists who are merely posting because they thoroughly enjoy the hobby.

If someone is constantly setting up new tanks because they need fresh content to bring in YouTube ad revenue? Maybe not the channel to watch for anything other than entertainment or the occasional inspiration or idea.

Do they talk about their mistakes? Encourage embracing them as learning experiences? Push for having the absolute best habitat you can provide for the plants and animals in your care? Or do they focus on what the average hobbyist could quickly dismiss as unrealistic? One of those is probably worth embracing. The other is purely for entertainment.

And if something sounds too good to be true? Like no water change aquariums? It's probably too good to be true.

If you're ever in doubt about something someone is saying or doing, search it out on this forum or others. Search systems on sites like this are your friend. You'll be able to find a couple decades of information and first-hand experience to help you sort through something. Almost no one popular on YouTube these days has been a hobbyist for as long as most reliable forums have been around. So they're a useful tool in sifting through what's what.
 
#9 ·
You are thinking about this way too much. There is no right or wrong "recipe" for a fish tank. Plenty of people do dirted tanks without problems. I think I have one dirted tank right now that's been up for years without too much issue. I'm not a fan of dirted tanks, but they're definitely something to experiment with. If it were me, I'd keep it how it is and see how it runs for the next few weeks.

My last dirted tank was 100% peat and that was a pain to maintain the ammonia levels at first, but within a couple of months, it was no longer an issue. That being said, why baking soda? Do you have a need?

I'd stick with it for now. Fish tanks are all about experimenting and figuring out what works best and what you like best. Some people love deep sand tanks, other hate it. Everyone has a different style and need and I highly recommend everyone experiments with different styles.
 
#10 ·
I haven't read all the responses yet but I will. was missing from the hobby the past few years and the Father Fish thing was a bit of a surprise to me. I do think maintenance can be overdone with questionable advantage at some point. I burned myself out doing just that. That said, some of the attraction to Father Fish is probably a desire to be controversial, and in some cases permission to be lazy. What I am pretty sure of is you can't bury a compost pile under sand and have a truly mature tank anywhere near as fast as I think some hope for when they discover his channel. For most it would be a better side project in a spare tank before you end up killing some nice livestock.
 
#11 ·
I have listened to Father Fish presentation in my fish club. His approach is similar to Walstad method with two differences. He favors sand cap over gravel in the believe that slow turn over rate in weeks is adequate. He favors the use of amended soil over garden dirt in the belief of more balanced nutrients. In either approach, it is a nearly natural system not unlike maintaining a garden pond--no water change, just natural rainfall and occasional filling to replenish evaporation loss. Natural soil substrate as growing garden plants. Does it work? Yes, but you are constrained with low fish density and choice of easy plants. There is no success growing many stems, specially red ones So the esthetic value of the set up is constrained. The failure rate of dirt tank is high outside the constraints. Another issue is working with soil is dirty and this is soil is called dirt. It is twice as dirty working in one's fish tank than in the garden, both in setting up and in re-scaping, often kicking up dirt cloud that takes forever to clear.
 
#12 ·
I hate terms like DEEP; i prefer inches. In my experience caribsea substrate esp the really nice super fine stuff like moonlight (which i love the look); will form anaerobic pockets like there is no tomorrow. I've had much better luck with HTH pool filter sand and estes stoney river substrate (black). To be honest my pool filter aquariums are only 1 year old now so not a lot of clock time but the stoney river one are as old as 5 years without issues. I can't tell you how many caribsea substrate aquariums i've had to tear down due to bad pockets forming (i ran a lot of 5 year tests on substrates on smaller aquariums before setting up my 500 and 600). Just giving you a heads up if you do change your substrate. I do find that plants can grow quite easily with the right kind of water in inert substrate if you give them time. This is my little 3 year old 10:
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That picture is about 3 months old - the mystery snail died about a month ago so now it looks like this:
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really need to stick another mystery snail in there to control the perl weed (i did not add perl weed to the first aquairum it was always there in small quantity). On the bright side my fish uses the mystery snail shell to lay her eggs.
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#13 · (Edited)
My "father fish" inspired tank is my favorite one. I didnt use his exact dirt recipe. I have organic potting soil, some dirt from my garden that has some chunks of manure, worm casings and some peatmoss. Then I capped it with pool filter sand. So far I have never done a water change, my plants grow very easily without extra ferts added to water. Granted, I probably have "easy" plants...Im not really sure, Im a plant newbie, I bought them all from aquarium co op here in WA. Tank is only 2 years old, so maybe its not old enough to tell if the method sucks or not?? I have two other tanks, one with just pool filter sand. One with pea gravel that I attempted to cap with some sand....both those tanks I find the plants do not thrive. Im constantly grabbing all the extra plants from my "father fish" tank to replenish the other two tanks. Like I said tho, I am a plant noob. I did buy some aquarium co op fert to hopefully help my other two tanks that do not have soil. :)
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#14 ·
New tanks are new. They take a while to stabilize. It sounds like you don't really want to tear this tank down and don't have any fish. I'd give it some time.

I'd probably recommend keeping the lights down and continuing to poke the substrate a bit. It'll take a little while to really saturate. That looks like a boat load of sand. I'd be willing to bet the bottom of your tank is still pretty dry.

Throw something on your calendar and reexamine how you feel about it in a couple of months.
 
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