Go with a good aqua soil like ada or tropica this is the best on the market to grow plants in IMO.

 

Watch your ph with ADA,as it can lower it. Iam just in the process of removing it. At least with the flourite you can control ins and ithers rather than what goes in your tank instead if taking what you get from soil not knowing what

Just another point of view,

 

Flourite does not have a very high CEC rating.:frown2:

 

I have tried flourite black and red. Flourite red was definitely more fine than flourite black. Almost in flakes rather than chunks like black is.

As for how well they grew plants I can't tell you. I had one water quality when I had red and another now that I have black. They're both inert so I suppose it would be the same, depending on ferts of course.

I definitely struggled to get anything to carpet. I started some carpeting plants in my flourite black recently and they didn't take off until I capped the black with sand and replanted them in the sand.

 

Yeah but your regular black will go up and the sand will sink....that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

As I mentioned in the original post, I want flourite or something like flourite because it won't break down over time .

I am fully aware about aquasoil being top, but I don't have money to rescape 75 gallon tank each year when the aquasoil turns mud .

So again, what would be the best solution, long term ?

And flourite has a good CEC , according to the company that made it and customers. Now a user says here that it doesn't .

Will organic potting soil and sand be good plant growers? I imagine not .

Is there a kind of substrate that lasts long ? I want at least 5 years minimum until breakdown . And be able to grow carpet plants as well.

 

Yeah but your regular black will go up and the sand will sink....that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

As I mentioned in the original post, I want flourite or something like flourite because it won't break down over time .

I am fully aware about aquasoil being top, but I don't have money to rescape 75 gallon tank each year when the aquasoil turns mud .

So again, what would be the best solution, long term ?

i don't think aqua soil breaks down that fast, think it took tom barr like 4 or 5 years before he decided to use a new batch of ada.

And flourite has a good CEC , according to the company that made it and customers. Now a user says here that it doesn't .

Flourite's pretty weak or at least back then it was, not sure if they changed their methods of making it.

Hi @Quagulator,

I think it would be a good idea. The last time this was done was about 2000 with the results of the testing published on pages 17-23 of Planted Aquaria Magazine Summer 2000 issue (hi-res .pdf - takes a while to load) the predecessor of the Aquatic Gardeners Association current magazine The Aquatic Gardener. The testing method and instruments involved are on page 22. Jamie Johnson was the author of the article. Here is a summary of the results, only a few of the substrates listed are ones we typically discuss today. FYI, the Turface listed as #16 and #16a in the chart are calcined Montmorillonite clay material very similar to the Safe-T-Sorb that we use today.

Will organic potting soil and sand be good plant growers? I imagine not .

yeah it can work: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...forums/12-tank-journals/731794-xzs-3ft-high-tech-low-tech-nano-experiments.html
just look for something that's low in organic content, think top soil might actually be better than potting mix for that reason

Is there a kind of substrate that lasts long ? I want at least 5 years minimum until breakdown . And be able to grow carpet plants as well.

Could always just go 100% sand and some osmocote balls, would have to be on point with your water column dosing though. you can grow carpet plants in sand.

tagging @burr740
2017 AGA Aquascaping Contest - #631
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...1117642-120-gal-dutchy-freestyle-now-35%-less-water-volume-43.html#post10592026

 

Ludwigia peruensis, Ammannia senegalensis, persicaria india, rotala macrandra japan, rotala mini butterfly, rotala alata, rotala magenta.
These are on the right side of my tank.

 

Capped soil is not for everyone.
Sometimes a while before adding livestock due to how "hot" the soil is.
Surface scum @ times needs a bit of skimming.

My next batch will only be a premium topsoil with small amont of added clay.

Never more than 1"
Sift for large particals of mulch and rock.
Soak in small potions to remove any floating debris.
Cap with @ least 1-1/4" of your favorite sand.

Removing plants takes patience to not make a mess.
Can't just yank them up.

 

I used the red Fluorite for years and was relatively happy with it. I was able to grow DHG and Dwarf Sag very heavily carpeted. Of course, carpeting plants benefit enormously from pressurized injection of CO2 and high light. They will spread – eventually – under low tech conditions, but it will take much longer. Both, I believe, are more difficult to establish than Monte Carlo.

Many members swear by the active substrates. I favor the inactive substrates, which never need changing or touching (active eventually run out of nutrients). ALL of your nutrients can be supplied via the water column.

I switched from the Fluorite to CaribSea’s Peace River (with sand under it), about a year ago, to get a different look. It, too, is inactive, but it holds the plants much better than the Flourite did, mainly because it is smaller in size and heavier (the Fluorite is fairly lightweight). Neither one will “break down” over time. You should never have to change it or vacuum it …so long as it is planted.

As an aside: we don't have much info about your current situation. Do you have proper water parameters and nutrient dosing? These are important aspects for plant health.

 

Yep, I dose according to labels on the vials,well a bit less actually since plants grow like crazy except the carpet...because of the 4 mm black gravel.
I just noticed the Monte Carlo is starting to send runners with fresh big leaves , but it's clearly struggling with the large grains of gravel.
I also have about 30 lumens/ litre using a combo of T5 fluorescent and led all cool daylight.
Also pressurised co2.

Everything is ok.

I am more about gathering Info for when I will do a big 90 gallon aquascape , I just started small with a 15 gallon tank and a nano to learn and see what works and more importantly HOW .
You just can't learn from reading and studying alone.
Thank you all . Have a good day.

 

Flourite variants

I've been using flourite for 20 years. I always have planted tanks. I've used flourite in low tech, and I have high tech tanks using it. I use it because I like the look of it. I like the weight of it....and I like the fact I never have to replace it. I never consider a capped soil because I like to change up things and I don't have to worry about the mess and the mixing of the soil and cap. Plants do well in my low tech established tanks, a fertilizer tab or 2 can help it out. My high tech tanks do well also but will require a well-managed fertilizer in the water column.

I have really heavily planted tanks. I haven't grown a lot of carpet plants but do grow baby tears, monte carlo, dwarf hairgrass. They all spread just fine. I haven't used many planted substrates so I can't compare. Does sand, capped soil and others do better with carpets? probably so. But I'm pulling up and trimming more than I want so it isn't important to me.

If you like flourite, don't let the purist scare you away from it. And it does NOT cloud if washed properly. I found that the black is a little finer than the regular. I recently tried the dark and it was larger grained and slightly heavier than the regular.

 

I've been using flourite for 20 years. I always have planted tanks. I've used flourite in low tech, and I have high tech tanks using it. I use it because I like the look of it. I like the weight of it....and I like the fact I never have to replace it. I never consider a capped soil because I like to change up things and I don't have to worry about the mess and the mixing of the soil and cap. Plants do well in my low tech established tanks, a fertilizer tab or 2 can help it out. My high tech tanks do well also but will require a well-managed fertilizer in the water column.

I have really heavily planted tanks. I haven't grown a lot of carpet plants but do grow baby tears, monte carlo, dwarf hairgrass. They all spread just fine. I haven't used many planted substrates so I can't compare. Does sand, capped soil and others do better with carpets? probably so. But I'm pulling up and trimming more than I want so it isn't important to me.

If you like flourite, don't let the purist scare you away from it. And it does NOT cloud if washed properly. I found that the black is a little finer than the regular. I recently tried the dark and it was larger grained and slightly heavier than the regular.

You should add your insight more on the forum!

 

Well , i allways thought that flourite must work on at least the level of an inert sand , otherwise why good reviews from customers and the fact that seachem still produces it?
I will get a bag of Flourite black in a nano just to see how it goes .
But if it has no absorption value of nutrients and then release ( which seachem claims it has and also customer reviews, why would seachem lie , wouldn't customers sue them ?) , why should I buy it instead of black inert sand ?
Something does not add up, and I guess it's just like u said , purists who had great results with pure sand or capped soil, and don't bother recommending substrates anymore. Nothing wrong with that , actually it's better to spend those money elsewhere if it works just as fine with normal sands.
I will just try and see the flourite black before committing to a large aquascape with it.
Can you please tell me the grain size of Flourite ? Black?

 

Grain size of flourite



I'll give it a shot. Please jump in and correct me if I'm wrong. Flourite is multi-sized grains together so it is difficult to try to tell you. I'll try to compare and I'm metric challenged. Regular flourite: grains between 2-7 mm, predominately around 5mm. Shape of grains between a pebble and chip shape. Black flourite: grains between 2-7mm, predominately around 3mm. Shape of grain more like chips. Dark flourite: grains between 5-9mm, predominately 7mm. Shape more like a pebble and sort of like milk chocolate colored in mottled shades.

Another thing I like about flourite, it is heavy enough you don't lose your gravel it you deep siphon. It is hard to describe it. I think you'll do best just getting a bag and trying it though it is expensive. I've caught really good sales on amazon and Drs. Foster & Smith for $17-18 and free shipping.

 

Really agree that it is hard to define size as it is a clay that has been baked and must start as a thin layer but easily breaks down while shipped and handled. That means some may be like a small chip while there will be some clear down to dust. The dust is one that I am mixed on how I feel, I do rinse it some but not to the point of running totally clear water. I just try to avoid a really big dust storm and let the rest filter out or settle.

 

...

 

Flourite red is the coarser, black flourite the smaller grain.

I have Flourite red, i like it, used it more than 5 years. It's a little coarse. If i would buy again i would go with brown or black. In fact mine is mixed with sand.

It may not have the highest CEC, but it does have cation exchange capacity.

Michel.

 

Don't go with red. I regret it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

Hi @Quagulator,

I think it would be a good idea. The last time this was done was about 2000 with the results of the testing published on pages 17-23 of Planted Aquaria Magazine Summer 2000 issue (hi-res .pdf - takes a while to load) the predecessor of the Aquatic Gardeners Association current magazine The Aquatic Gardener. The testing method and instruments involved are on page 22. Jamie Johnson was the author of the article. Here is a summary of the results, only a few of the substrates listed are ones we typically discuss today. FYI, the Turface listed as #16 and #16a in the chart are calcined Montmorillonite clay material very similar to the Safe-T-Sorb that we use today.

Blast from the past!! I wrote this article for Dave's magazine in late 1999. I tested a lot of substrates for members of the The Krib and Aquatic Plants Digest. That's all we talked about for years. I, too, was surprised about the low CEC of it, but that didn't stop me. I've been using it for over 20 years, still have some very old product in my tanks. I also still have some original bagged product Dr. Morin sent me in response to my article. Rinse it well, then rinse it well again. Finally, rinse it again. Add water slowly and you're in business. BTW, #11 Terralit is currently in one of my nano tanks in my office. I guess you can tell I never throw out aquarium stuff. Heck, you never know when it might come in handy.



I would offer a little advice about substrates, experiment! There is no real winner, there is no all-encompassing substrate. It's like cigars, like what you smoke and smoke what you like. Who cares what others have or use. The biggest draw of this hobby to me is trying different things until I get something I like. I like it today, but in a couple years, I may try something else. That's how you gain knowledge. Jamie <"\\\><

 

I used Original Fluorite a while bank in a tank which ran for 10+ years. A low tech setup, plants seemed to do well in it. I found it hard to plant in (then again, I find it hard to plant in anything I've tried) but once roots do grow out, they really cling to the fluorite! Pull up a valisnaria and you will get a couple table spoons of Fluorite with it, stuck to the roots.

I always had a hard time keeping corys though. There was widespread speculation about that many years ago, but I dont think any definitive conclusion was ever drawn. For every person who said Fluorite was too "rough" there was at least another who said they had no issues with them.

 

Thats interesting I have a bunch of flourite black I'm thinking about using. I want to keep cories but I'm wondering how it will effect them. Cories have always been hit or miss with me. Some do fine some don't. My cousin had a flourite tank and the cories were fine. I had cories in my tank with fine sand and they didn't do well. I've been keeping fish for 20 years. Some cories just seem to be more sensitive then others. I guess it really depends on the species. Some seem to handle a course substrate better then others.

 

Here to offer my 2 pennies

I have fluorite black sand in my tank and very much enjoy the look of it and how easy it is to plant in. Holds plants well. If you are planning on getting barbel sensitive fish like cories then this black sand is good for them too. I have my tank running for about 10 years, same substrate and have healthy plants and fish.

I don't know about CEC or lack thereof because I use EI to feed my plants. I also have another tank with pool filter sand (no CEC) in it and use EI as well and plants thrive.

My next tank I am going to experiment with Black Diamond blasting sand as a cheaper way to get that "black sand" look.

Hopes this helps

Cheers

 

Here to offer my 2 pennies

I don't know about CEC or lack thereof because I use EI to feed my plants.

What's EI?

 

Currently using Flourite Dark. Has taken three or four months for it to finally show it's benefits; had to jump start with Flourite Tabs.

HOWEVER, I am currently using low-light plants...java fern, moss, anubias and crypts...with low-medium LED light. The anubias found and worked their way into the Flourite Dark rather quickly, but the leaves lightened up a bit before going dark green again. The crypts got some nice long roots now and the fern have worked their little dark strands to stick to the Flourite. Not adding any ferts, but considering Flourite Advance.

Now...if I could just get my s*** together and go down to the welding shop to find a small CO2 tank. I throw some Excel into the tank every couple of days.

 

My 55g is all fluorite black, and my cories are active/healthy. I have six spotted and two emeralds. They like to rest on the carpets and moss, but seem to have no problem rooting around in the fluorite. Sometimes they uproot small newly-planted stems.

My old tank was soil with ecocomplete on top. I like fluorite black much more. It's finer than gravel, easy to plant, and looks nice. I set up my current tank about 10 weeks ago, and my monte carlo carpet is really spreading. Some of my stems aren't growing very quickly, but I think that will improve over time as everything matures. I use EI, but I'm thinking about adding some root tabs just for this early phase.

 

I recently put together a 50 gallon tank using Flourite Dark. I love the way it looks - lots of texture and variation in color and size. You need to rinse this stuff extremely well or it will make a cloudy mess. I spent the better part of an afternoon rinsing it with a hose to get the dust out. . Here are a couple of pictures to give you an idea of the texture. The pictures are a bit warm in color as there are a lot of tannins in the water. The leaf is about 2.5 inches long.