I'm not quite up to scratch on lily biology and what happens when their leaves reach the surface etc. but your nutrient dosing is a bit lacking in the macros department. You need to add nitrate and phosphate dosing, this could be the reason why you are having older leaves melting. Consider looking at dry fertilisers as the Seachem fertilisers are leas cost effective.


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Thanks for the reply!

I thought nitrate and phosphate came from fish waste. Do I still need to dose these?

For dry firts, I'll add them directly to the tank. Since Nymphaea r root feeders, should I place the fert mix near the roots, or should I just distribute throughout the tank?

 

They do come from fish waste but sometimes fish waste alone is not sufficient, you're pretty lightly stocked as well. Nymphaea and most plants we use can take nutrients perfectly fine from the water column. The root feeder thing is a bit of a myth. Just put the fertiliser straight into the tank.
Could you also post a picture may help us see exactly what's going on. Thanks!


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Part of the plant begins to turn translucent and breaks apart.

 

I ordered some dry ferts from GLA which are arriving today. I got the EI Fertilizer Package which includes KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, and Plantex CSM. How much of each should I be using for my 29 gallon tank?

 

Go on Rotalabutterfly.com and calculate how much you need to use to make stock solutions to dose for 'Low-tech EI'. You are not injecting CO2 I assume.


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I had grown several varieties of Nymphaea over a few years, and found that it was difficult, if not impossible, to allow stems to rise to the surface, while at the same time also having low, bushy shoots stay closer to the bottom.

It seems that you have to be content with having the plant go one way or the other.

If you allow a number of new stems to rise up to the surface without pruning, all following stems will continue to do just that, and only that, seemingly instinctively.

Conversely, if you wish the plant to develop & remain low and bushy -spreading rather than growing tall & long-legged, you can't allow any stems to push up beyond the others' heights, reaching for the surface. You've got to trim any that start out that way, in order to keep the plant thriving as a low & bushy plant.

Very strange, yes, but that was the experience I had with them.

 

I can vouch for only allowing the lilies to do one or the other. Once they find the light at the top of the tank, that's all they really want to do unless you do a very severe trim (as in all leaves). Lilies can usually take this ok, given that they have a large enough bulb. To keep them small and bushy, nip any leaves that want to float before they hit the surface

 

Discuspaul & kehy: if I let the pads reach the surface, does this increase the growth of the plant?

Opare: I'm not using co2? Should I be adding it in liquid form? By letting the pads reach the surface I thought they could get co2 from the air. I'll check out that website now.

 

Your first question: I don't think it makes any difference one way or the other in the growth of these plants.

 

Just a basic question on EI dosing. The directions say to dose 3 times per week then perform a water change. Are the plants able to absorb nutrients that quickly? Or are the nutrients removed by the water change to prevent algae growth?

 

Okay the reason why I asked about CO2 was to make sure you're tank is low-tech (no pressurised CO2 injection). This is fine, nothing wrong with it, you don't have to dose liquid carbon supplements. However, this means you shouldn't be dosing the normal EI routine with the weekly water changes. Instead dose low-tech EI. Normal EI is made for high-tech CO2 injected tanks where plants grow fast so the amount of nutrients dosed is really high, this would cause problems in your tank which is low-tech. In low-tech EI you dose a lot less nutrients because of the plants slower growth rates. In low-tech EI you only dose once a week and maybe do water changes every month or more.
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/13623-Tom-Barr-s-Non-CO2-method
Here's Tom Barr explaining it.
Also, yes once the pads reach the surface they will have access to atmospheric CO2, but your nutrients or light will probably become a limiting factor so I wouldn't expect their growth to increase that much. Don't really think about that, treat them the same as if they were underwater.
Basically don't follow normal EI, follow low-tech EI.
You can calculate dosing for all your fertilisers on the website I gave earlier ( rotalabutterfly.com ) just pick your chose compound and then click for low-tech EI.

This is an example of what you should do I used KNO3 here.
I advise making stock solutions of each compound rather than dry dosing BTW, dry dosing in small tanks is impossible. Just pick the 'Solution' option on the calculator. This will give you a big stock solution mix, and then you dose a little bit of this everytime you want to dose your aquarium. How much is dependant on you and what you want, 5ml for each dose is what I do.
TBH you could even dose half doses of low-tech EI and you may be fine. Once you start dosing with this method you won't need to dose all the Flourish stuff.
Sorry if I may have confused you earlier. If you have any questions please ask.


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Discuspaul: gotcha. I think I'll let the pads float to the surface because I like that look better

Opare: thank you so much for that detailed explanation!

 

No worries, I didn't really explain myself very well earlier.


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Is overdosing K, P, or N toxic?

 

Errr yes at a certain point but you have to really, really overdose to do that.


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Update:

Since I began dosing, I've noticed improvements in growth and color. I switched the cardinals for some dwarf pencilfish.

However, I've noticed that I lose 1 or 2 leaves sporadically. Is this natural for lilies to shed leaves when there's is an adequate amount of nutrients?

 

I only grow hardy Lilies outdoors so I don't know if my experience qualifies: But with that caveat, Lilies are pretty heavy root feeders when healthy.

The ones I keep in my semi-tropical stock tank all seem to benefit from using Osmocote type of pelletized, slow release fertilizer. In my case I'm 'planting' the Lilies in 5 gallon carboys cut in half and the bottom is 1/3rd filled with demineralized subsoil, and a few of the slow release fertilizer pellets with washed river sand over the top. And yes Lilies, (at least mine do this...) will occasionally lose older leaves, it is part of what they do. Although I don't think in an aquarium lighting situation you're ever going to approach the light levels of even a bright overcast day without some serious investment in lighting. So I think you're going to find your leaves stay smaller and grow closer to the plant.

I'm having to use shade-cloth on my stock tanks to keep from burning my transplanted stem plants, and it's not been a significantly sunny May or June this year.

 

The Pencils are really nice! Good to hear things are improving.
Not sure on the lilly thing, someone else will have to chime in on that. Which leaves specifically are shed? Older ones I'm assuming?


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Opare: The older leaves are the ones being shed, just to confirm. And yes, I really like the pencilfish too! They remind me of hummingbirds with their fast moving pectoral fins.


GrampsGrunge: Thanks for answering my question. I was confused because the Lily sends out new leaves while shedding older ones, but i guess this is natural. I do use Seachem tabs and dose EI along with frequent water changes.

Are Osmocote brand fertilizers safe for fish?

 

Are Omsokote brand fertilizers safe for fish?

I'd have to say anything if used to excess is bad for fish.

I know quite a few forum members have tried the aught aught size gelatin capsules filled with Osmokote + pellets in their aquariums. It seems like an awfully large dosage of ferts, even for a slow release fertilizer.

And no I'm not recommending you try this, as Osmokote makes all sorts of different fertilizers, some of which are fast dissolving and would be a disaster in an aquatic environment.

I'm using the Miracle-Grow version of O+ slow release pellets which is a slightly different formula with urea instead of nitrates. Notice I said I was using just a few individual pellets, not the gelatin horse caps filled with pellets. Each Lily plant gets about 4 or 5 pellets each yearly as a little N boost for spring growth, seems to work OK and my fish are all pretty healthy.

 

Thank you everyone who helped me. I'm extremely pleased with how my tank has developed and could not have achieved it without the contributors on this thread!

 

Really good to here. Tank looks good!


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After a few weeks of rapid growth, my water Lily has been shedding leaves very quickly to the point that only a few low leaves remain. What could have caused this sudden change?

 

if I'm not mistaken they have rest periods like aponogetons.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I heard that resting is not necessary in captivity since the plants are always underwater.

 

My Stellata always had a yearly rest period, but my red tiger lotus, N. Rubra, and Micrandthra did not

 

Yes, the Lily is the "only plant" in the tank (there are multiple bulbs, that used to be connected).
If you look at a previous post in this thread, you can tell that currently, the plant has shed a lot of the stems, but the remaining leaves are healthy and growing, so I'm not sure what caused the change.

Interesting about the dead spots. When I do water changes I try to stir the sand without moving the bulb because I'm worried that this will damage the plant. I do remove dead roots though when I see them.

I kinda like the short, more compact look. Makes it easier for maintenance. I've read that stronger light makes lilies grow like this, but I didn't change my light.

 

I'd just keep an eye on it, you can probe the sand about 5"~7" out from the plant and see if it's getting packed in with a mass of roots. When they start binding up the sand of roughly 3/4rs of the tank's substrate volume, it might be time to think about cleaning the old root masses out. You can also take that time to cut the new rhyzomes off for more plants. They should sell nicely at the LFS, those mini tropical lilies aren't always easy to find.

 

GrampsGrunge: thank you so much for hinting me on about the dead spot; I just spent 10 minutes stirring the sand bed and so many bubbles came up. I hope my fish will be ok

 

Should be fine, Usually, and I'm referring to my own coolwater outdoor stock tank of 80 gallons, planted with big lilies, it took a couple years for the roots and rhizome to get to the stage of actually impeding nutrients to the living roots deep in the sand. I'd say your digging the plant out now would be a little premature.

Let it fill the sand in with roots. You can usually tell when it's time, the roots will start to mat on the gravel surface and when you poke the mass some rotten egg smelling bubbles will come out. I kinda doubt your plant has gotten to this stage yet.

 

I added a few more granite rocks to my tank. One of them has some "shiny speckles" on it. Not sure if this is dangerous or safe. So far fish seem ok.

If the rock leeches any metals into the water. Will the plant be able to absorb them?