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Need help to improve shrimp baby survival rate

6K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  beanbag  
#1 · (Edited)
Edit: this thread is 2 years old now, so don't reply to this anymore and check out my other one.

Hello folks,

I have a 3 gal shrimp tank that has been up and running for about 5 months now. Generally things are fine and nobody dies. A month ago, I had two Taiwan bee shrimp get berried, and the first hatched the eggs about a week and a half ago, and the other a week later. Yesterday and the day before, I found a total of three dead baby shrimp. I don't know what killed them off, and one of them was a slightly larger size, so it must have already gone thru one molt or more. There are a few issues that I could think of:


1) regarding "biofilm", is there enough? There is a moss tree in the center, where I assume most of the shrimp are hiding. There is also some algae on the side and back wall, but not a whole lot visible in the rest of the tank. Ever since the babies came out, I have been dosing the tank with Bacter AE once per two days. However, there has recently been an outbreak of (I dunno, aquatic aphids? They are tiny dots less than 0.5mm large and sort of look like a tick) which have also been eating the algae.


2) Most of the baby shrimp that I see are inactive and just standing around, which I think is a bad thing. Occasionally there will be one that is actively grazing and trailing a string of poop, but that's maybe less than 1 in 5. (Maybe the rest are hiding in the moss tree grazing, I dunno)



3) Attacked by rhabdocoela? No, they are not planaria. Sometimes one will approach a baby, and the baby will flick and move away, but other times the baby shrimp seems to give up and let the rhabdo crawl all over it.


4) Got something stuck on its claws and starved? One of the dead shrimp did seem to have a blob of something stuck to it, and I think it is due to bits of food that fell into the substrate or maybe bits of decayed Indian Almond leaves that got moldy and made a sticky substance. My aquarium does seem to have bits of this here and there, and it is sticky enough that it can lift up pieces of substrate (little 2mm balls of UNS Controsoil).


5) Water parameters? Not to be too TLDR, but the parameters are suited for caridina shrimp, no ammonia, and the only concerning parameter is the NO3, which started off at 5 ppm a month ago, but recently rose to slightly below 10ppm, maybe due to all the extra feeding I was doing with Bacter AE and Shrimp Baby. I did one water change and turned up the lighting some more to encourage more plant growth. (However, it seems that if I make the light too bright, my neo shrimp become inert)


Anyway, that's all I can think of for now.
 
#2 ·
1.) Might be over-dosing AE. A lot of people under-dose as full dosing causes issues. One or two have even reported deaths while using it and deaths stopped after they stopped using AE. The bugs could be copepods? Or seed shrimp?

2.) Maybe an issue with parameters or temp?

3.) That.... sounds... odd... and not normal at all

4.) Could it have been a part of a molt by any chance? Maybe the sticky substance shouldn't be in tank?

5.) Can you give us an idea of what the parameters currently are?
 
#3 ·
Honestly, if the water parameters really are fine, then just give the babies enough to eat and give them a place to hide when necessary and they should be fine. The little dots are probably copepods or something similar and shouldn't be an issue (they're typically seen as a sign of a healthy tank even if they can be a little unsightly), and the Rhabdocoela shouldn't be harming your shrimp in any way (I also have them in my tank and my babies survive just fine.) Your nitrates are also nothing to worry about.
 
#4 ·
Hello folks,

I have a 3 gal shrimp tank that has been up and running for about 5 months now. Generally things are fine and nobody dies. A month ago, I had two Taiwan bee shrimp get berried, and the first hatched the eggs about a week and a half ago, and the other a week later. Yesterday and the day before, I found a total of three dead baby shrimp. I don't know what killed them off, and one of them was a slightly larger size, so it must have already gone thru one molt or more. There are a few issues that I could think of:


1) regarding "biofilm", is there enough? There is a moss tree in the center, where I assume most of the shrimp are hiding. There is also some algae on the side and back wall, but not a whole lot visible in the rest of the tank. Ever since the babies came out, I have been dosing the tank with Bacter AE once per two days. However, there has recently been an outbreak of (I dunno, aquatic aphids? They are tiny dots less than 0.5mm large and sort of look like a tick) which have also been eating the algae.


2) Most of the baby shrimp that I see are inactive and just standing around, which I think is a bad thing. Occasionally there will be one that is actively grazing and trailing a string of poop, but that's maybe less than 1 in 5. (Maybe the rest are hiding in the moss tree grazing, I dunno)



3) Attacked by rhabdocoela? No, they are not planaria. Sometimes one will approach a baby, and the baby will flick and move away, but other times the baby shrimp seems to give up and let the rhabdo crawl all over it.


4) Got something stuck on its claws and starved? One of the dead shrimp did seem to have a blob of something stuck to it, and I think it is due to bits of food that fell into the substrate or maybe bits of decayed Indian Almond leaves that got moldy and made a sticky substance. My aquarium does seem to have bits of this here and there, and it is sticky enough that it can lift up pieces of substrate (little 2mm balls of UNS Controsoil).


5) Water parameters? Not to be too TLDR, but the parameters are suited for caridina shrimp, no ammonia, and the only concerning parameter is the NO3, which started off at 5 ppm a month ago, but recently rose to slightly below 10ppm, maybe due to all the extra feeding I was doing with Bacter AE and Shrimp Baby. I did one water change and turned up the lighting some more to encourage more plant growth. (However, it seems that if I make the light too bright, my neo shrimp become inert)


Anyway, that's all I can think of for now.
Params would help a lot. With TB's it can be finicky. Theres params for CRS, then there's params for TB's, then there's params for TB baby hatching, then there's params for TB baby survival. Aka just cause TB's can survive and berry doesn't mean the babies can thrive :icon_cry:. A lot of breeders find more success with TDS<140 for TB's, gH 4, pH </= 6.2. Consistency is key.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies. It is appreciated.
The parameters are: GH 6, KH 0, TDS 140-150, Temp 71-72.x, pH mid 6's.
Ammonia 0, NO2 0, NO3 5-10 ppm right now.
These parameters have been the same for a while now - the only thing to change recently is the feeding.
I do water change (drip new water back in over a few hours) with RO and SS gH+ every 1-2 weeks.

The blob stuck on the shrimp is not a molt shell - it is a tan-brown color. I did see a baby shrimp molt once, and the shell is clear, just like the adults.

The little spots are not copepods (I have those too), but instead vary in color from black to tan to white. They are very slow moving or stationary. I'm not worried about them attacking shrimp, but rather eating up the algae.

The amount of Bacter AE I dose is about the same size as a 3mm pellet. The other shrimp inhabitants are 2 Amano, 3 neo, 4 TB, and two batches of babies (maybe 40 hatched eggs).
 
#8 ·
You may want to consider moving your Neos to another tank and dropping the GH down for the TB's. That will probably be your best bet for keeping the offspring alive. I've heard of this issue in some CRS as well.

I'm not sure about the blob you speak of but the other "spots" are maybe freshwater limpets?
 
#12 ·
2) Most of the baby shrimp that I see are inactive and just standing around, which I think is a bad thing. Occasionally there will be one that is actively grazing and trailing a string of poop, but that's maybe less than 1 in 5. (Maybe the rest are hiding in the moss tree grazing, I dunno)
I have seen this in my own RO tank. And in my tank it was an iodine deficiency. Only a few hours after adding iodine to the water theyshrimp were active and swimming around. I have now modified my fertilizer to include 0.01 ppm of potassium iodide (KI). Since adding iodine the issue has never reoccured. I have dosed up to 0.1ppm and have seen no negative effects.

Iodne is a necessary trace nutrient for all animals including people. Plants don't need iodine so feeding shrimp may not solve the issue. Most animals get most of the iodine they need through drinking water or consuming meat.Fatigue and weakness are common symptoms in people.
You can add iodine by using Seachem Iodine:
https://www.amazon.com/Reef-Iodide-100-3-4-fl/dp/B0002A5X5U/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=seachem+iodine&qid=1559698203&s=gateway&sr=8-7

Or you can purchase dry KI through LoudWolf.com:
https://www.loudwolf.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=49&zenid=Yt66h5drMiBYjIk8MEdB71

I would suggest adding it to your tank. It will not do any harm at the levels I use and would help improve the health of the shrimp even if iodine ends up not being the cause of your problems.
 
#15 ·
What do you mean by "mesh filter"? Do you mean sponge filter? If what you're using is only the pile in the front left of your tank, you're going to need more than that. A sponge filter would be ideal for your tank. You're likely seeing nitrate spikes because you're fertilizing and possibly don't have decent filtration.

I get the sense you're trying to do too much with your tank. Just give it proper filtration, stop using fertilizer, let things settle and rest.

What are the little white squiggles on the left side of the tank? Air bubbles? Or basic white worms (nothing to fear)? If they're white worms, that suggests to me that you're overfeeding.
 
#17 ·
What do you mean by "mesh filter"? Do you mean sponge filter? If what you're using is only the pile in the front left of your tank, you're going to need more than that. A sponge filter would be ideal for your tank. You're likely seeing nitrate spikes because you're fertilizing and possibly don't have decent filtration.

What are the little white squiggles on the left side of the tank? Air bubbles? Or basic white worms (nothing to fear)? If they're white worms, that suggests to me that you're overfeeding.

Those are bubbles + long exposure.
The only mechanical filter I have is that mesh bag I put over the filter intake in the back right. I used to use a sponge, but that would get clogged after about a week with that tan-colored gunk. With this, the stuff gets caught right at the surface, so the shrimp can pick at it if they want. The bits that get thru goes back into the tank. I don't try hard to remove it because I saw a successful CRS tank with no mechanical filtration, lots of bits swirling all over the water, and the shrimp were happy picking at everything.


As for the bio filter, that pile, plus the surface area of the tank, is all I have. I have never seen ammonia nor nitrites after cycling, so I assume this is good enough. I would be ok with adding more bio-media elsewhere if you can explain why it would be beneficial.
 
#16 ·
Those look like air bubbles to me so.... I'm kind of confused as to what a mesh filter is myself. I don't have any tanks that small, but I also think you're doing too much too. I hardly do anything for my 14g pinto tank and they breed like crazy w/ .6kh 6gh + sand and controsoil.

It sounds to me like you might do more total feeding and water changes than I do on this tank... and you can't see them but there's 20 someodd chili rasboras that were up at the surface above the pic thinking I'm going to feed them.
Image


I would use a sponge filter instead of the one I have on there generally, but it came with that filter from aquatic experience and I had sponges that fit over the intake so I just left it...
 
#19 ·
Update:
Today one of my cherry shrimp died - the first adult death in this tank ever. It kind of swap up to the top of the moss tree and landed on it's side. It did some tail flexing moves and had a slight gap behind its carapace, which is typical right before shrimp molt. Except being on it's side. It didn't seem to try very hard except for small twitching and probably died 1-2 hrs later. My first thought is that this might be a failed molt, but there are a few things that make me think it could be something else:
There is a gap in the shell, but it is not as big as the pictures I see on the internet, and it doesn't go all the way around.
Don't shrimp usually struggle for longer with a failed molt?
This guy has been in the tank for 4 months now and molted several times before.
The water parameters are the same as they've ever been, e.g. GH 6+/-1. These last few days I have been doing a 0.5L RO water change to try to bump down GH slowly, but it is still GH6 and the TDS is only about 10-15ppm lower than in my post #5.
Oh yeah, I did dose Seachem Iodide at 8ppb a few days ago, but that is not very much. Hmmm.
Feeding strategy has changed a little since I added Shrimp Baby to the mix.

Other than that, there are have been no big changes to the tank for a long time now. I wonder if it could also be old age, since this shrimp hasn't grown at all since I first bought it.

Oh, and BTW, I haven't seen any more dead babies since, and the other shrimp and neos seem fine.

Also, I forgot to add that I actually am running a sponge filter (sort of). There is still a little 1" cube of foam at the inlet, which is now covered by that white mesh bag for the sake of the babies. That foam would normally clog once per week with debris. So while this sponge is not providing any food, it should still be doing its biomedia thing.
 
#20 ·
Update2: Things seem to be going downhill.
That same corner of the tank where I found the dead babies earlier, which I will now refer to as the "Corner of Death" claimed another two victims. Again, the shrimp seemed to have some brown-ish goo stuck to them. I was able over the last two days to "save" several babies that also had stuff stuck to them, and were on their sides nearly dead. I netted them up and just kept them in the net. After several hours, they would actually slowly eat the blobs off of themselves and "come back to life", although they are still generally inert and don't move around.
My guess is that goo is from bits of decayed Indian Almond Leaf, or maybe some other tank debris.
I already gravel vacced that area twice, but that didn't seem to help, so now I just covered it with a layer of sand.

Anyway, in addition to the Corner of Death, I still have the problem where the baby shrimp seem very weak and inert.
The GH is closer to 5 now, due to doing a SMALL water change every 1 or 2 days. TDS upper 120's.
I decreased feeding, and now I see less babies around. There is algae on the glass walls (not so much on the hardscape) so they could be eating that if they wanted to, but they don't.
Could there be something "bad" in the water, as all the other shrimp do seem a bit inert also. Maybe run Purigen or carbon?
 

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