Anyone? I also see some cryptocoryne young leaves that appear curled. Moreover I have many Ramshorn snails with corroded shells. I always thought this had to do with the co2 but now I have come to believe this is probably calcium related.

 

Hi @Sarpijk (Steven)

I'm not so sure that is a calcium issue we are seeing. Do you have any water parameter information?

pH =

dKH =

dGH =

nitrates (ppm of NO3) =

Also some photos of other species showing newer leaves and older leaves might provide insight at well.

 

Hi, thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I don't have any water tests at hand, I do not believe in their accuracy. I prefer watching how the plants behave.

The tank is mainly crypts, buces and ferns. The only two stems are Limnophila and Ludwigia mini Super red. The latter is as healthy as ever and I trimmed it last Saturday.

I looked it up and came across a case of Boron Toxicity. I thnik this could be the case here since Omsocote + has it. I need to remind you that I kept dosing E.I levels of micros and macros this past week.

 

Hi @Sarpijk (Steve)

I agree that the plants can tell us a lot about what may be happening in our tanks. However many plant deficiencies appear similar and knowing water parameters can help eliminate some deficiencies and save time and frustration.

So I took your picture of the Ludwigia above and enlarged, enhanced, and added arrows to it - this is what I saw.

Arrow #1 is pointing to a recently matured leaf, do you see the interveinal chlorosis (dark leaf veins with lighter leaf material in-between). Since the newest leaves do not seem to be showing this issue I would suspect more magnesium is needed by the plant.

Arrow #2 is pointing to the newest leaves on the same stem. I could not get a totally clear image however are those newest leaves failing to unfurl properly? Possibly undersized and or deformed? Do you think you could get another picture of that growing point that is in better focus?

 

I took some more pics hope it provides a better idea of what's going on.

 

Following, my L. super red is looking the same.

 

Hi @Sarpijk (Steve)

I apologize, I did not see your response until just now.

You may have a slight calcium issue but it appears to be more of a magnesium deficiency. However, I saw a couple of leaves on the Ludwigia that showed some leaf tip hooking (downward) and in the photo below the new leaves certainly seem to be deformed and not unfurling normally.

So it is possible your calcium level is marginal as well.

Do you do weekly water changes? Water changes are a good way to replenish calcium and magnesium the plants use up for growth assuming their is sufficient of those nutrients in your water. If not you will have to add supplemental calcium and magnesium. Magnesium is easy, magnesium sulfate (MgSO4*7H2O / aka Epsom Salt) should be available at your local pharmacy. Do an initial dose of 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Thereafter, when you do your weekly water change add 1/4 teaspoon for each 10 gallons of new water added to the tank.

For calcium typically we use calcium sulfate (CaSO4*2H2O / aka gypsum). Do an initial dose of 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Thereafter dose 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added during water changes.

Now the hard part..........wait two weeks. During the two weeks watch the new leaves as they emerge. Do not watch the existing leaves they will not change. What you should see is the new leaves unfurling straighter, likely larger, and possibly with better color. As these new leaves mature over the next couple of months they should not develop the interveinal chlorosis we see in the first picture I posted previously. Keep us posted as things progress; pics are always appreciated! -Roy

 

Ηi Roy , thanks again for your advice. No need to apologize I appreciate your help immensely.

Two things I' d like to comment.

1. What if I just stop adding R.O water in every water change? I certainly do not keep soft water species so it will not pose a problem for my fish.

2. I already have a full bottle of Aquavitro Mineralise, a GH booster containing Mg and Ca. Do you reckon I could just use this in place of the chemicals you mentioned?


Finally a last thought. I mentioned in my original post that I had fiddled with the co2 in the previous days. In Ukaps where I frequent the general consensus is that problems with physiology are co2 related. Have we ruled that out?

 

Hi @Sarpijk (Steve)

1) Certainly an option, although without a test kit you really don't know what you are adding or how much. Much of the water in Greece comes from wells reaching down into karstic aquifers so there may be a lot of calcium in the water but little magnesium. If you were to do a change maybe 75% RO water and 25% tap water during water changes......likely you will still need to add magnesium.

2) Aquavitro Mineralise will work fine, add sufficient to increase the hardness by about 2.0 dGH. I believe the 'standard dose' is 5 mL for every 40 L (10 US gallons) and will increase the hardness by 2.8 dGH; I would not do #1 and #2 at the same time....do one or the other.

Increasing the amount of CO2 can cause nutrient deficiency(ies) to show up in a tank if the growth was CO2 limited to begin with. If growth was CO2 limited then the increase in CO2 increases the plant growth rate and subsequently the uptake of nutrients. If a nutrient(s) are 'marginal' to begin with then the increased plant growth rate will expose the nutrients that are in short supply and cause deficiencies.

 

Just took some pics of other stems of the same species that look much better and totally unaffected by the whole situation.

After your comment Roy I do feel there is a magnesium deficiency judging by the look of the older leaves on Ludwigia super red. I should also add that I have already added 7 ml of Aquavitro Mineralise last Saturday after my weekly water change.

I will wait and see how plants respond.

 

Hi, after adjusting the co2 and adding Aquavitro Mineralise my Aromatica seems much happier. The crooked tops had to be removed of course but I now have many new off shoots.


I have also bought some Epsom Salts. For the time being I thing I will keep using Mineralize. I have also ordered a TDS meter to keep track of things.

I will give the tank a good trim this weekend and I am hoping that I will have good growth from now on.

 

Hi , I haven't updated the thread in a while. I have stopped using R.O water and now use 100% tap water and I also add a teaspoon of Epsom salt in every water change. Things look much better. I have also added a few Osmocote + balls at the base of the stems.

Special thanks @ Seattle Aquarist for the advice.

 

Hi @Sarpijk (Steven)

Definite major improvements, good job Steven!

A lot of times it seems that looking for the cause of a deficiency moves first to the more obscure Trace nutrients before fully exploring if a Secondary nutrient such as calcium, magnesium, or sulfur could be the issue. There have been times that I was under-dosing potassium so even Macro nutrients need to be explored as possible causes.

 

Hi @Sarpijk (Steve),

Thanks for the 'like', I can only assume the plants in your tank are doing well?
-Roy

 

Hi Roy, since then I have moved to another city and setup just two low tech tanks. I did have to revisit the topic though because I now know for sure after reading the water company report on water quality that it is totally devoid of Magnesium. All the symptoms I thought indicated a Fe deficiency might as well have been Magnesium.

So I read about the dosing for Epsom salts.

Thanks again hope you and your family are all healthy and enjoy Christmas!