To me, a Siamese algae eater was the solution for that algae, if that's your only algae, then get 3 of them, they will eat that nasty algae.

 

They get big and they don't fix the root cause. Thanks for the advice

 

You will need algae eaters even if you "fix" the root cause, fixing the root cause will only make to appear very very less, AFAIK, but since you already have it, is very unlikely to disappear by itself.

What you can check then is your water parameters.

GH, KH, Nitrates, Phosphates just before you do your water change.

pH what's your maximum and minimum, for maximum take some water from your tank and put it somewhere (bowl or cup) and wait 48 hours and check its pH using a pH probe. Then check your lowest pH in your tank at your mid cycle of your CO2 regime and compare the difference. You should have 1 point or 1.2 points, for example if your water pH after 48 hours is 7.5, then your pH in your tank should be 6.5.

 

How much bba are we talking about here? What is it growing on? A full tank shot would help.

I had a small issue with it at some point, but it went away. I spot treated a few larger patches on my hardscape with hydrogen peroxide (not hydrochloric acid) and trimmed off any old leaves where it was growing, but I think the real difference came when I removed my driftwood. I think it was just leaching too many organics, but I don't really know. I never had a lot and it seemed to grow slowly. But this is in a low tech tank; I think it can be more problematic in higher energy tanks

 

The ph goes down to 6.5ish when the co2 is on. I don't have a gh test and I have 4DKH. I agree that I will need algea eaters, what do you think about nerite snails.


It's all over the tank. It's growing on the filter, plants, wood, rock, substate

 

Critters/fish will never solve a large algae problem. BBA is pretty much always too much organics (feeding/waste, dying plant leaves) with too much light for a given setup. The best solution is to keep the water as clean as possible and at the same time increasing plant uptake. Both of these remove organics from the system.

 

I

How would you suggest increasing the uptake of the plants

 

Stable CO2 has always been the way I treat BBA. I'd lower the bubble count to 1BPS and check that the CO2 is consistent at that bubble rate first and foremost.

 

@Asteroid would you recommend purigen for removing organics?

 

Yes, that or carbon. Everytime I start up a tank I use carbon for the first two months. It's just another layer of organic removal in addition to water changes, especially when the tank is new and plants haven't really kicked in.

 

Another chemical treatment is to spray the BBA-infested plant or decor with 3% hydrogen peroxide outside of water, let it sit for 5 minutes, rinse off the chemical, and put the item back in the aquarium.

 

Is lowering the bps just to see if the regulator is working correctly or is it just to lower the levels in general

The last time I tried to get rid of BBA it lingered because the working pressure of my cylinder was constantly lowering. I changed the regulator to one that didn't adjust pressure, got the bubble rate stable and within two weeks got rid of the algae.

 

Try using Flourish Excel. Use a syringe to apply directly to impacted area underwater. Pace yourself so as not to overload your system. Monitor the area to see results over a few days. Worked for me. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I've gotten similar results using 3% Hydrogen Peroxide, and save the expensive Excel for fertilizing my low tech tank. I generally limit the peroxide to 1 mg per gallon, although at times slightly higher with no ill effects on fauna/flora. Worked great with a recent bout of Blue Green Algae too! NOTE: it is critical to shut down the filter before applying the peroxide in order to protect the Beneficial Bacteria in your filter. Then, as all of the fizzing on the BBA or BGA dies down, the peroxide has converted to oxygen and water. I wait about a 1/2 hour before turning the filter back on. Kinda reminds me of that very old Alka Seltzer commercial song "plop plop, fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is". lol

 

A 20-minute potassium permanganate bath will kill algae on plants. You could dose the whole tank with plants and fish in and neutralize with peroxide, but it would disrupt the nitrogen cycle. Also, laterite substrate is rich in iron. Some people believe, other than light, iron is the most significant factor in controlling algae growth.

 

A 20-minute potassium permanganate bath will kill algae on plants. You could dose the whole tank with plants and fish in and neutralize with peroxide, but it would disrupt the nitrogen cycle. Also, laterite substrate is rich in iron. Some people believe, other than light, iron is the most significant factor in controlling algae growth.
[/QUOTE

I would never dose the whole tank with peroxide. That would be like eating a whole bottle of aspirin for the concentration to be effective. lol I was talking about spot treating, using a syringe, with the filter off. Abslolutely no effect on the nitrogen cycle, as long as you wait for the peroxide to break down into oxygen + water before you turn the filter back on. I limit my spot dosing to 1 mg/gallon per application and turn filter back on after 1/2 an hour (more than enough time for peroxide to have transformed into harmless Oxygen + water). Have sometimes done it daily until the problem is cleared up. Never had the nitrogen cycle disrupted using this time-tested method.

 

If you have BBA your tank has problems.

You have some good advice from @Asteroid in this thread.

It's almost always related to organics and poor maintenance. Also too much light in relation to the type/amount of plants and many times too much flow.

And although some suggest adding critters to clean it up, that is poor method. A well run tank does not need any algae eaters. I don't keep a single one in my tank. And many times too many just adds to the problem creating more waste. Common cleaning crews like Bristlenose Pleco's add more organics and can make the situation worse.

 

I am a firm believer in keeping some types of algae eaters in planted tanks. However, I agree they are not for keeping hair algae or BBA under control. Some snails will naturally increase the amount of the biological activity in the substrate by borrowing and increasing the amount of oxygen available. More biological activity means more natural co2. Some will clean the glass and break down organics meaning less maintenance. Otto's look good when they are shoaling and they clear the diatoms of plant leaves. Shrimp breakdown leftover food. They have their place, IMO.

I still say get them if you want them and like keeping them. If you NEED them you have other things to worry about.

But now you got me curious. Could you explain how snails burrowing creates more biological activity? And what is biological activity? And how does that create more oxygen? And how does that lead to more natural CO2?

 

Sure. I'm sure some of the info you'll already know but I'm to add so I can bring the topic full circle.

By biological activity, I'm referring to bacteria and other organisms feeding and reproducing, and their respiration.

As you move deeper in the substrate there is less oxygen. If your substrate is too deep it becomes completely anaerobic(without oxygen) towards the bottom. Bacteria that live in anaerobic conditions consume nitrate and give off byproducts like hydrogen sulfide that in large enough amounts could kill everything in your tank..True anaerobic conditions don't usually exist in freshwater tanks because we don't keep six-plus inches of substrate in the tank. Regardless, the amount of oxygen is normally lower in the substrate. That is because the bacteria that live there need oxygen to live and consume it just like we do. And just like us, during respiration give off co2. As time passes substrates settle and become more compact, especially finer substrates, further reducing the amount of available oxygen. When snails, like trumpet snails, borrow through the substrate they loosen it and allow more oxygen in. Their mulm also becomes a source of food for the bacteria. Similar to earthworms in a garden.

Higher amounts of oxygen in the substrate mean more good bacteria can live there. More good bacteria means more co2.

Hope I brought that full circle.

Not saying trumpet snails are for everyone. They reproduce quickly. They mostly only come out of the substrate at night. Some people can be freaked out by them because they only see a couple in their tank during the day. Then one morning, they're there when the lights flip on and see hundreds of snails hanging off the glass. The first time I saw it, not going to lie, creeped me out little.

... if you had enough snails to even put a dent in co2, you have one seriously dirty tank.

Yep, I have a tank with dirty substrate. Very dirty, since soil is more than half of the substrate in that tanks. When the lights are off they, the bacteria, not the snails can get the co2 up to 10-15+ ppm. Having a dirty substrate isn't analogous to dirty plants, dirty glass, or dirty water.

Kinda pointless IMO....

I agree. I was just throwing it out there as an option. In most cases fixing the root cause is the best solution.

 

...Some snails will naturally increase the amount of the biological activity in the substrate by borrowing and increasing the amount of oxygen available. More biological activity means more natural co2.

If your referring to them moving/consuming organic matter around sort of like composting you are talking about a minuscule amount that will have no real effect on anything. If that was the case people would load up on MTS (Malaysian trumpet snails) because that's what they do. They borrow through the substrate all day. Also if you had enough snails to even put a dent in co2, you have one seriously dirty tank.

I was thinking more about dosing with potassium permanganate(PP) and naturalizing it with peroxide. In an attempt to kill everything on the plant before putting it into the tank...

Kinda pointless IMO because even tissue culture plants will get algae if the conditions in the tank are right for it. Algae spores are all around, nothing has to be brought in from a purchase to get algae going. On the flip side you could introduce an algae infected plant or rock/wood and if the tank is well balanced through maintenance, uptake etc the algae will not be able to compete and will eventually disappear. That's why this whole cycle of dosing peroxide / Glut is really just a waste. Infected leaves are already damaged and the glut, etc weakens them more. Much better to just trim off the leaves and make changes to the setup so you don't have to rely on nuking the tank. You want new healthy leaves not salvaging damaged ones.

 

Yep, I have a tank with dirty substrate. Very dirty, since soil is more than half of the substrate in that tanks. When the lights are off they, the bacteria, not the snails can get the co2 up to 10-15+ ppm. Having a dirty substrate isn't analogous to dirty plants, dirty glass, or dirty water.

Ok so this is where you have to take off your scientist cap and put on your hobbyist one. What does this tank look like where the increased co2 was produced via the underground snail army? Any pics? We can talk about all kinds of biological processes etc, but at the end of the day, it's about what it does for your tank and is it applicable to producing a aesthetically pleasing setup. Actually the dirtier a tank is the more limiting it will be in terms of light, stocking, plant species, etc. Think Walstad, those tanks are "dirty" since they try to be self-sustaining, but if you don't stock them full with easy to grow plants that do well in dimmer light the whole system falls apart, that's why you generally see only less demanding species in such a setup with very limited livestock.

 

Yep, I have a tank with dirty substrate. Very dirty, since soil is more than half of the substrate in that tanks. When the lights are off they, the bacteria, not the snails can get the co2 up to 10-15+ ppm. Having a dirty substrate isn't analogous to dirty plants, dirty glass, or dirty water.

I agree with @Asteroid above about this.

A dirty substrate does mean a dirty tank. And in general means more organics, poorer plant growth, and more algae. And certain more difficult plants absolutely won't tolerate it. A clean substrate is all part of keeping uber clean conditions which is one of the keys to a successful planted tank.

I've learned that in my own tank. And recently in a big way I will write about in my journal.

And if you are suggesting you get to 15 ppm CO2 from all of that I just don't buy it. Do you know much CO2 you need to inject to get to that level? How did you determine this??

 

There’s more than one way nurture a planted tank. I should have stated that in a high tech planted tank, snails and a biologically active substrate aren’t as useful as they are in a low tech planted tank. There is science that supports both methods. That said high tech tanks can make for faster growth and usually are better looking if you willing to put in the effort.

Oh my OK Diana I get it now.

I’m not a Walstad fundamentalist but I do beleave that people do better in the hobby when they incorporate a certain amount of science into their efforts. You asked for pics give me a few. If you look closely you might see a co2 tube.

 

You asked for pics give me a few.

I didn't ask for pics.

But now that you mentioned it I am interested in seeing what you are up to.

Here's my tank.

 

neocaridina shrimp on hollowed out driftwood from the local creek. I like seeing shrimp emerge from the darkness.



shrimp on java moss, the same piece of driftwood. They spend a lot of time cleaning the moss
l

I didn't ask for pics.

But now that you mentioned it I am interested in seeing what you are up to.

Here's my tank.
View attachment 1037478

very very nice looking tank, sorry must have quoted the wrong person

neocaridina shrimp on hollowed out driftwood from the local creek. I like seeing shrimp emerge from the darkness.



shrimp on java moss, the same piece of driftwood. They spend a lot of time cleaning the moss
l

let me try that again, I don't usually post pictures

Here's the pictures that will let people say told you so picture. Algae near the bottom of the tank. This shrimp is happy and berried. I assume when I put the driftwood in the tank I got a few pond snails with it. That or they came in on one of the plant swaps, either way, they died out pretty quick. Hence the snail shell she's dancing on.

Everything else.

Males guppies at the top of a different tank thinking I'm going to feed them.

 

Composed of very fine strands or tufts, it grows in dense patches resembling a dirty green beard, thus earning its name. It can also be bright green, blue-green to blackish green. It is soft, slippery, and grows rapidly, yet clings tenaciously to plants and cannot be easily removed by hand. It is eaten by only a few fish, notably the Florida Flag Fish and the Siamese Algae Eater


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Males guppies at the top of a different tank thinking I'm going to feed them.

I give up on pictures but you get the idea. Not a high-tech tank.

 

I recently had a battle with bba in my 180 gallon 6 feet high tech planted discus and angelfish tank. Over a year as well. It was on the walls, plants, heck they even formed a bba carpet. 8 discus, 6 altum angels, 30 rummy nose, 30 cardinals, 8 roseline sharks, you can imagine the amount of organic waste in the tank. Having to weekly change out 50% of the water and running 2 fluval fx5 created a bba and algae heaven.

I’ll tell you what fixed the problem. A lot of research on here and advice from the pros but the main thing was Proper Flow. It’s as simple as that. I used to have the two fx5 outflows creating a circular flow pattern mounting the outflows on opposite sides of the tank. I thought this was enough flow. The problem? Not the right kind of flow. There was a nice circular flow but the Co2 and nutrients didn’t reach down deep enough into the tank for the plants to have access. Old leaves would just die and decay. Also the mulm and detritus collected in dead spots. This is where bba thrived. The main problems with bba is not enough Co2 and flow. Since I was injecting Co2 until fish were gasping and backing off a bit from there I knew I had enough. Problem was also not enough Co2 and nutrients getting to the deeper areas of the tank.

The solution? I installed a 5 feet diy pvc spray bar with each fx5 filter outflow plugged into each end. This fixed the flow pattern and also removed all the dead flow spots in my tank. You want big enough holes in the spray bar so that it’s a gentle laminar flow not a jet like flow. That way you’re still getting max flow rate and filtering max water volume, but not so turbulent. Like a gentle flowing river. The water would flow out the spraybar gently hitting the surface to create aeration and then hit the front of the glass, then down to the bottom and through the substrate to the back glass. The filters became cleaning machines as any mulm or organic matter would get swept up into the flow and find is way to the intakes on either side. This and continuing my regular weekly maintenance removed all bba from the tank. Now my filters do all the work even with the high organic load. My tank is still in recovery but all the bba and algae is disappearing and not growing back.

very very nice looking tank, sorry must have quoted the wrong person

yeah you don’t want to poke at Greggz 🙂. His tanks were featured in a magazine what many people on here can only dream of their tanks looking like.

 

The solution? I installed a 5 feet diy pvc spray bar with each fx5 filter outflow plugged into each end. This fixed the flow pattern and also removed all the dead flow spots in my tank. You want big enough holes in the spray bar so that it’s a gentle laminar flow not a jet like flow. That way you’re still getting max flow rate and filtering max water volume, but not so turbulent. Like a gentle flowing river. The water would flow out the spraybar gently hitting the surface to create aeration and then hit the front of the glass, then down to the bottom and through the substrate to the back glass. The filters became cleaning machines as any mulm or organic matter would get swept up into the flow and find is way to the intakes on either side. This and continuing my regular weekly maintenance removed all bba from the tank. Now my filters do all the work even with the high organic load. My tank is still in recovery but all the bba and algae is disappearing and not growing back.

Exactly the way I have mine set up and well described.

Gentle laminar flow with a purpose.

People misunderstand good flow. Many think that means plants waving around. It's not. Too much and too concentrated flow is an easy way to bring on a batch on BBA.

 

Here's the pictures that will let people say told you so picture. Algae near the bottom of the tank. This shrimp is happy and berried. I assume when I put the driftwood in the tank I got a few pond snails with it. That or they came in on one of the plant swaps, either way, they died out pretty quick. Hence the snail shell she's dancing on.


View attachment 1037480

Thanks for the pic. There are alot of different ways to enjoy this hobby. As mentioned, tanks that are kept low in organics by fast growing plants, religious water changes and good maintenance have far less restrictions on light and what the tank can look like aesthetically. The Walstad method has it's place, but it is restrictive in the sense that you need easy plants that grow in lower light. High organics and high light create algae issues, most notably BBA. From your pic, it looks like the light is pretty dim and you have a few easy to grow plants, which is what works in such a setup.

 

yeah you don’t want to poke at Greggz 🙂. His tanks were featured in a magazine what many people on here can only dream of their tanks looking like.

Ha I don't mind being "poked".

I enjoy a healthy debate/discussion and have learned much from them over the years. In the end my opinions are shaped by my experience, but I recognize there are many ways to run a successful tank and others may have a different experience.

 

It’s viparspectra 165w it’s a cheap Chinese black box that is very well regarded in reef tank community. Just gotta make some adjustments.

 

Any pics of the outflow? Maybe you could increase its diameter. With bba it is said they like areas of strong turbulent flow because Co2 concentration is always fluctuating in that area mixing with Co2 concentration around and inside the turbulent flow.

 

I'll try to get one tuesday when i do a water change; the problem is that it is at the back of the tank and covered with java fern. I'm actually ripping hte java fern out tuesday when i do water change to add new plants so that should make it easier to photograph.


Ok here is a picture. Normally the water level is level with the outflow but during water changes it drop a bit so the picture is misleading in that aspect:

 

Looks like a ton of bba on the filter walls as well. Definitely try and clean that off. I know you mentioned you can’t have a spray bar but why not? Seems like you can easily make a diy spraybar to attach to that.

 

So basically suggesting i buy some pvc of the right diam; drill some holes; run it along the back and glue it into the outlet of the jetstream - probably should angle it down for the right 'type' of current. Marginally concern the stream isn't strong enough to withstand back pressure but i could try. The sponges do seem to build up a lot of muck and bba but it does that in all the tanks (high-tech and low tech); and pretty much equally so - Not sure why. I clean it about once every 6 months.