Who has done professional tank setup and maintenance?

1690 Views 25 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Naja002, Nov 13, 2007

JenThePlantGeek

Discussion Starter · Nov 9, 2007

A few quick questions for you...

1) How do you determine what to charge?

2) Who do you get insurance through, and what's the going rate for this sort of thing?

3) Any other advice you can give?

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

aquanut415

· #2 · Nov 9, 2007

i maintained tanks in college for money on the side in the science building at SFSU, and a few other local business around the city, and a Morgan Stanley office in downtown Jack London Square in Oakland for 2 years. i stopped doing it cause of the clients, not the challenge in keeping the tanks.

Setup tank for a set price: $10 per gallon (negotiable) + they provide all hardgoods and fish.
every other week maintenance: $50-$150 per visit depending on clients tank size, and maintenance needs. (really tried to limit myself to 1 hr per visit)

thats what i charged.

my only advice is the following;
make sure the client and you are in sync. If they say they want to do 0 maintenace, you need to figure out a way to keep the tank looking nice between visits. the hardest thing was to balance what the owner wanted against what i thought was best for the tank and its inhabitants.

i think my problem came from the fact the owners in most cases just wanted immediate results, and its just not always possible. Especially when they try and go cheap on you and have you only come in once a month, or every 6 weeks.... and then they expect you to make the tank sparkle the very next visit. it was fun, sometimes very frustrating and very challenging. id like to try and do it again someday.

good luck!

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evercl92

· #3 · Nov 9, 2007

I called around, and asked what local 'pro' services charged. They were charging $50 / hr, plus cost of fish, products, etc. I told people what the companies charged, then I told them I was $25/hr (plus fish, products, etc). As already mentioned, be sure you and the client are on the same page - maintenance schedule, total cost, etc.

Urkevitz

· #4 · Nov 9, 2007

evercl92 said:
I called around, and asked what local 'pro' services charged. They were charging $50 / hr, plus cost of fish, products, etc. I told people what the companies charged, then I told them I was $25/hr (plus fish, products, etc). As already mentioned, be sure you and the client are on the same page - maintenance schedule, total cost, etc.

That seems cheap to me, unless the prices of products/fish is hiked up.

knuggs

· #5 · Nov 10, 2007

Hey Jen are you planning in starting a full time business? Yoink and I were thinking of doing something along those lines.

evercl92

· #6 · Nov 10, 2007

Urkevitz said:
That seems cheap to me, unless the prices of products/fish is hiked up.

Which is cheap? Pro service at 50/hr or me at 25/hr?

I just left it up to them (or, I'd usually go with them to the LFS) to get fish, after telling them what they should be looking for.

JenThePlantGeek

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 10, 2007

Great advice, thanks guys!

I'm still trying to iron out the details, do my research, and find some way of reconciling the horrible cost of insurance ($800-3000, from what I hear...)

Aquanut, evercl92, how long ago was it that you did maintenance? I'm just wondering if the rates have evolved at all. They also may differ based on area of the country.

Did you generally use the tap water on the site?

Thanks again guys, any other input is greatly appreciated.

A Hill

· #8 · Nov 11, 2007

I think Jen reads my mind sometimes.

I've also been thinking about this for a long time. Now for DECA I'm going to be doing a competitive event about entrepreneurship and its to make a business with plan and all that fun stuff, projected expenses and the works.

Jen what are you looking at insurance for? Car, or like small business insurance?

Do you have any projection of what your costs will be?

Also, if the client was far away, would anyone charge more to cover gas or anything?

Thanks,
-Andrew

ps. Jen not trying to hijack just get more information as well, hopefully you don't feel I'm hijacking the thread, if so let me know.

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Urkevitz

· #9 · Nov 11, 2007

When I was helping a guy do construction he would charge twice the cost of a door or window for installation. He did this incase he accidentally cut a door wrong or smashed a window, so he had enough money to replace it with no extra cost to the customer.

If you were installing a tank for someone would it be a good idea to charge twice the price of the tank?

I would probably charge $35 an hour plus products, just because thats what I charge to landscape. People save with me because I don't jack up the price of plants, and I get the plants 1/2 price from the nursery. I do it mostly for a hobby, and do all work under the table with no insurance though.

evercl92

· #10 · Nov 11, 2007

JenThePlantGeek said:
I'm still trying to iron out the details, do my research, and find some way of reconciling the horrible cost of insurance ($800-3000, from what I hear...)

Aquanut, evercl92, how long ago was it that you did maintenance? I'm just wondering if the rates have evolved at all. They also may differ based on area of the country.

Did you generally use the tap water on the site?

Not sure why you need insurance. Just provide services "as is". If a tank breaks, fails, etc, it's up to the tank manufacturer to to do the replacing.

My maintenance has been off and on for a year now, and recently.
Used tap water from their faucet.

bgoodwins

· #11 · Nov 11, 2007

Its not just about replacing the tank or livestock. What if it was run near a computer with important data? You as a contractor have liability, and they can and would sue you.

JenThePlantGeek

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 11, 2007

Yeeeup, a friend of mine who has been doing this for awhile gave me some advice. When I proposed the idea, the first thing he said was "Get good insurance!".

He knew someone who had a tank leak onto a server, and the guy got sued for $50,000. It doesn't matter if they "agreed" to be responsible for the tank or not. America has had several million stupider lawsuits. Coffee is hot, fast food makes you fat, and tanks can leak - common sense doesn't really run rampant in this country.

He's also installed a BRAND new tank and had it bust in less than two weeks. Luckily for this one, they only asked him to pay for professional carpet cleaning.

Anything can happen, and as a sole proprietorship I would be personally liable for any money should I happen to lose a lawsuit. This means my HOUSE, my CAR, and my PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNT could be taken away if the worse happened.

So yeah, I'd say I DO need insurance.

A Hill

· #13 · Nov 11, 2007

Jen could you have them sign a disclaimer or something?

-Andrew

JenThePlantGeek

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 11, 2007

What, like a "Warning: Coffee is HOT" type thing? We see how well THAT worked out :hihi:. I don't trust myself to be able to write a disclaimer covering every possible loophole, and I'm certainly not going to hire a lawyer to do it for me.

I personally wouldn't do business without insurance, too much at risk.

Church

· #15 · Nov 12, 2007

^ I thought that disclaimer was the result of that McD's hot coffee lawsuit... in other words, I don't think they used to print it on the cups before the lawsuit.

JenThePlantGeek

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 12, 2007

Though there was a warning on the coffee cup, the jury decided that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient.

Nope, it was there.

Stupid stuff can happen, even if you think you're covered.

oblongshrimp

· #17 · Nov 12, 2007

well jen why would you want to set it up as a sole proprietorship? You can set it up as a corporation for maybe $100 and a few forms. If you are sued they will most likely not be able to come after your personal assets, just the assets of the corporation. Even better is to set it up as an S corp then the profit flows through to you like a partnership or sole proprietorship but with the protections of a corporation (so you don't get hit with double tax)

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectID/78FC3C83-30C0-4E57-9F6C7E7F8B45E726/111/182/241/ART/

This has a bit of background on the benefits of a corporation. Its defiantly worth doing since it does limit your personal liability if you follow the guidelines.

JenThePlantGeek

Discussion Starter · #18 · Nov 12, 2007

Thought a LOT about that, oblongshrimp, and did a lot of reading. I basically decided that I don't see myself ever having employees. I don't see it being a publicly traded company, or having a board of directors, or anything like that, so much of what makes it a corporation would be sketchy to justify to the tax gods. I'll be funding the startup costs from my own pocket and don't have any investors that would hold share in the company. The sole proprietorship outline fit me much better, all told, for what I had in mind.

And page 2 of your link points out a lot of good things regarding insurance:

Incorporating should never take the place of good business insurance. Even though forming a corporation protects your personal assets, you should use insurance to guard your corporate assets from lawsuits and claims.

I may be less willing to take risks than others though, I guess you just got to do what works for you.

A Hill

· #19 · Nov 12, 2007

JenThePlantGeek said:
What, like a "Warning: Coffee is HOT" type thing? We see how well THAT worked out :hihi:. I don't trust myself to be able to write a disclaimer covering every possible loophole, and I'm certainly not going to hire a lawyer to do it for me.

I personally wouldn't do business without insurance, too much at risk.

Well not as simple as that and much better than "warning hot coffey" I read that case link you sent, and to be honest they should probably just put a biohazard sign on the cup and call it a day

Seriously, many places have disclaimer contracts you have to sign before using or having anything to do with them to make them not liable for anything. I know the yacht club I belong to makes all new people sign a few papers basically saying this is a dangerous sport, you could die or get hurt, if that happens we are not liable.

Insurance is always a good idea, but I wonder what a layer would charge to write up something like this. I know a few of my neighbors are layers maybe I'll ask them sometime.

Jen what is your projected business in IN? Would it still be profitable with insurance? It sounds like you're talking about a full time job doing this, and if so it may not be a bad idea to have the vehicle of transport included as well, but I don't know if that would be cheaper or more expensive than normal car insurance. All ifs that I need to look into.:icon_roll

Either way best of luck to you.

-Andrew

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JenThePlantGeek

Discussion Starter · #20 · Nov 12, 2007

Jen what is your projected business in IN? Would it still be profitable with insurance? It sounds like you're talking about a full time job doing this, and if so it may not be a bad idea to have the vehicle of transport included as well, but I don't know if that would be cheaper or more expensive than normal car insurance. All ifs that I need to look into.

Projected business? Ahhh, lots of competition. My main strength is that I know quite a few people and already have my foot in the door many places. I'm also going to go out of my way not to step on other's toes. If my buddy who does maintenance can do it better and easier than me, then he can go for it and I'll take my 10% finders fee

Full time job? Nope. Just after work. Software Engineering pays too well and is too much fun to give up entirely.

As far as mode of transportation, look VERY carefully at tax deductions offered to sole proprietorships. You can deduct business miles. I already have top coverage car insurance, don't really plan on changing too much there. Mainly, just every time I head out to a client I gotta track my miles.

Keep the details straight, and it might pay off

I think I can break even this year depending on the rates I get, but I don't plan on turning a worthwhile profit until about 2 years from now.

Main goal: get those student loans payed off, and then work on new goals

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