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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I do 10-20% water changes, and it seems that whenever I do one, I find a dead white cloud in my tank the next morning. This has happened three times. The fish are fine before the water change, and I dechlorinate room temperature water with Jungle Start Right (also removes chloramine) before adding it to the tank. What gives? The other fish in the tank don't mind the water change.
 

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Something in your water maybe?

I run the tap right into my tank and dose for the tank volume and let er rip. My school loves to swim in the current of the incoming fresh water and Ive never had any problems doing this. I would assume living in a major metropolitan area that they use chloramine here too......
 

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Children Boogie
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there are other shocks too besides temperature.. Like PH maybe.

I had this happen too but it was from temperature shock.. I had an oversized heater that would let the temp go too low and heat the water way too fast..
For heaters, it should be 5 watts per gallon, nothing more.
 

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I've lost fish this way before. My suspicion is that its either ph shock or temperature shock, since you say that you're adding dechlor to the water. I use my python every several days when I do a wc and let it flow directly from the faucet to the tank and simply add dechlor to water column. This hasn't caused any issues as long as the water going in is about room temp. You're thinking along the right path with smaller wc's since that would result in less of a ph shock (temp too), but if your tank ph is 6.0(for ex) and the incoming water is 7.8, that may be too drastic even for a small wc to offset.
Also, when you're putting in your new water, are your filters running? I almost lost a couple albino cories last week as they were lying upside down and sideways during the filling-up stage. I had done a rather large wc which was a little on the cold side and noticed when I put my hand into the water that the water near the top of the tank seemed ok, but the water near the bottom was c-o-l-d. This is basic high school (or lower) science (heat rises), but I didn't think of that. Might be helpful to you, to at least prevent the same mistake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My tank doesn't have a filter, but I've always been careful to add water that was about the same temperature as that in the tank. I think that next time, I will try leaving the water sitting out overnight with the dechlorinator in it, even though that's a PITA. Is it common for the water in an aquarium to have a significantly different pH than the tap water it was filled with?
 

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I know that tapwater contains large amounts of dissolved gasses especially during the winter when the water is colder. I believe its due to the water companies pressurizing the pipes.
 

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Children Boogie
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My tank doesn't have a filter, but I've always been careful to add water that was about the same temperature as that in the tank. I think that next time, I will try leaving the water sitting out overnight with the dechlorinator in it, even though that's a PITA. Is it common for the water in an aquarium to have a significantly different pH than the tap water it was filled with?
yup... the PH in my tank is 7.0.. my tap water's PH is 7.7
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If there's a difference between the pH in my tap and the tank, and a sudden change in pH kills my fish, what's the proper way to do a water change? I'd like to stop replacing these little guys.
 

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My tank doesn't have a filter, but I've always been careful to add water that was about the same temperature as that in the tank. I think that next time, I will try leaving the water sitting out overnight with the dechlorinator in it, even though that's a PITA. Is it common for the water in an aquarium to have a significantly different pH than the tap water it was filled with?
yes....which is why you have to leave the water sitting out for a day or two if you want to get the real ph value of your water (it has to degass)
my method for a waterchange is to leave my water in a ten gallon trashcan with an extra heater in it (probabley overkill)....
when its time to change the water i pump it out into the tank...
no fishkills ever...
you might want to try filling your tank very slowly....that way the fish wont be subjected to huge jump in ph ....
 

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The pH change you get with a water change would have to be really extreme to kill any fish. In any natural water body every time it rains hard, the pH of that water changes, and may change considerably. Fish aren't harmed by that.

The problem may be that the fish you lost was just reaching the end of its natural life, or was weakened by something else. The stress of a water change could be the last straw for it. I occasionally lose a guppy that way - yesterday I changed about 95% of the water, with two consecutive changes, and today one very old male guppy is on his death bed. But, all of the others are looking great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If it was just one fish, and one water change, I wouldn't think much about it. However, this happened three times. Three water changes, and the day after each, one dead fish. I guess I'll find out if the pattern continues after the next water change.
 

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I actually lost three white clouds when I moved them inside to a small 5 gallon tank from their summer 25 gallon whiskey barrel. ....Then I lost the three I purchased to replace them, again white clouds.

I finally came to believe I was adding too much declor to the water. I think that white clouds hailing from cool mountain streams must be use to plenty of oxygen in the water; and too much declor can reduce oxygen levels.

I've used Prime for a while and do know a little goes a long way. However, it took me longer to realize that for such small tanks (5g, 10g) I only need ONE drop for each gallon, not two or three per gallon as I'd been adding. When I dose my larger tanks, 75, 46, 35, I'd always use a baby medicine dropper so my dosing was right on target. But with the 5 gallon I used the flip-top dropper so was trying to figure that dosage in drops. Big error!
 

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I have a tank ful of golden white clouds,apistos,ocats,celestials and amano shrimps.

I do 50% wc every week with tap water that is about 7.8ph and my tank has a deep layer of aquasoil/powersand that lowers my readings to about 6ph and 5kh from 7.8ph and 11kh and I have never had a problem with it. I pour straight from the tap via python and hit it with amquel de-chlor.

I think you should get you tap water tested for other impurities like ammonia/nitrates/etc. Or start with good stock.
 

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Well I'd like to ask a few questions that weren't answered. Or maybe they were but hidden.

These are weekly water changes right? Is your tank cycled? How long have they been in your tank? Do you recognize one white cloud that has survived the three water changes? How long has that one been in your tank? What are the other fish?

Do you use heated water? Sometimes heated water will corrode the copper and other heavy metals in pipes and might be excessive enough to kill your white clouds. Nevermind scratch that idea your other fish are fine... Unless it was a betta. How much are betta tolerant of water conditions compared to White Clouds?

Well if your problem persists you should try Seachem Prime. I learned not the trust Jungle products...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The water changes were approximately weekly. My tank is fully cycled and very heavily planted, predominantely with nutrient sponges (anarchis, sunset hygro). There were two white clouds that survived all the water changes; I could tell them apart because they were larger than the others all along. I bought more though, and I can't tell them apart anymore.

I do use a little bit of warm water (just enough to get it up to around room temp), but I wouldn't think that white clouds should be very sensitive to copper; I think that's primarily a concern with shrimp. The water around here is likely to contain some copper whether it's hot, warm, cold or frozen though; this region was once the largest copper producer in the world. They pulled over 8.2 billion pounds of copper out of the ground; the mines are shut down now, but there's still a lot of copper in the ground. Unless there's a solution for removing copper from the water, that's not going away. Also, I can't get Seachem products around here; neither Walmart nor the LFS carry them. Shipping is a killer trying to order one bottle online.
 

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This happend to me once a few years ago when I had a 20 gal long - it was very traumatic. My li'l white clouds were all happy, dancing their jigs, spawning, etc, and I did a routine water change. They were swimming into the stream of incoming water, the way they do. Minutes later, all the white clouds - and only the white clouds - were gasping at the top, turning a ghastly white color. I dropped the water level and aerated the heck out of it since the usual "do a water change" fix seemed like a bad idea, given the circumstances. I lost nearly half of the little guys; one recovered after I moved her to a bucket with salted aquarium water, and she was ok after a few days. She was in the "death spirals" stage of croaking when I transfered her to the bucket. The other survivors were clearly improving the day after the water change of doom.

I still do not know for sure what happened with that water change. The tank had cherry and amano shrimp, all totally unharmed, and a few other community-type fish. I have well water, so chlorine was not a concern. My best guess was that the well had some really bad gasses disolved in it, and with the white clouds goofing around directly in the stream of incoming water, they got a huge blast of it and were poisoned. The pH out of the tap is much lower than after it has off-gassed, so I know it has CO2 in it, but I suspect there was something else in there too, since just aerating the tank water did not improve things rapidly.

Anyway, I now do my water changes in my 100 gallon tank by putting the water in two large plastic containers and running a couple of old filters in the containers to aerate the water at least for several hours, and preferably overnight. Airstones would work fine too. I haven't had any more problems. But then again, I've kept fish with well water for many years and only had that one tragic incident. It was enough that I stick to my new procedure, though.

I hope you find a solution - it is so sad to lose these cute little guys!
 

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Sounds like temperature shock to me. Test the water with your finger. The human body is sensitive to temperature changes within 2* F. I also look through the side of the tank when I'm refilling with the Python. You can see if the water temp is different-the water coming out of the Python looks distorted, like heat waves rising off the horizon or blacktop. If you see that, you know the temp of the incoming water is off.

I know you said you can't get Prime, but ditch the Jungle stuff. Can you get Tetra Aquasafe or Kordon AmQuel? Either one is better IMO.

Tommy
 
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