[Asterix1]

Hi,

I started a small tank (with filter, heat and light, tap water) with around 11 Fire Red Shrimps in it. It has substrate, wood, plants, almond leaves, hiding spots etc..

I wish to also add some other types of shrimps but i am not sure which would work. I do know that you cannot mix Cardina and Neocardinas together.

Questions:

1. What would happen if I were to add some Blue Velvet Shrimps in this tank?

2. I wish to add blue shrimps, but the Cardina varieties such as Aura Blue tigers or Extreme Blue Bolt are super expensive. Any other ideas on a more affordable blue shrimps?

3. Would someone recommend their own mix of shrimps that could work in a small tank with Fire Red Shrimps? (ex: 3 types)

Thank you!

 

[WaterLife]

1. Blue Velvet and Fire Reds are both Neocaridinas so they breed together and produce brown/wild-type offspring.

2. There are OEBT (Orange Eyed Blue Tigers) that are a bit cheaper. Royal Blue Tigers are a bit more expensive, but breed more true and usually are a nicer shade of blue. There are Black Eye (Regular) Blue Tigers, though I don't often see them anymore since Orange Eyes are much more preferred. You could get culls of OEBT that don't have the best blue coloration/coverage, but they are likely to produce offspring with not as nice blue as well. There are blondes of OEBT, but those are lowest grade with very little to no blue.

3. Tiger Caridinas most often work out being kept with Neocaridinas. Tangerine Tigers are inexpensive and very hardy. Nice color and breed true. Other tiger options include, Black Tigers (BTOE), Red Tigers, Super Tigers etc.
Sulawesi shrimp (Caridina) like high pH, but are pretty sensitive and require their water parameters to be specific.
Most other Caridinas (Crystals, Blue Bolts, etc) like much more acidic soft water than Neocaridinas and Tigers. Tigers do like water parameters closer to Neocaridinas than the other Caridinas, which is why they are usually more compatible.
Ghost shrimp, Amano shrimp, Bamboo/Flower/Singapore Shrimp, Vampire/Viper/Giant Blue Wood Shrimp are usually other compatible options, though don't expect them to breed (ghost can though).

It still does depend on your water parameters though (pH, Temperature, KH, GH, TDS)
Take a look here to see what shrimp are even able to survive in your water. Neocaridinas are hardy and can adapt to a wide range of parameters.
Dwarf Shrimp Water Parameters ? DiscoBee

If you don't have test kits, I do recommend getting some (pH, KH/GH especially. TDS if going for sensitive species)
If the Fire Reds are pretty new, I would wait a few weeks to see how the shrimp do in that time frame, just to make sure they really do well in your water or not. It will give you more experience as well before stepping up to another shrimp.

When doing water changes, it seems shrimp prefer smaller water changes (10-20%, can do more frequently) rather than large ones.

 

[garfieldnfish]

I would second the Tangerine Tiger shrimp. If you have never kept caridina before, those are the ones you should start with. Much hardier then all of the others. They are also more aggressive when it comes to food and will compete well with the RCS. I have snowball shrimp with my tangerine tigers and both breed all the time.

 

[Asterix1]

Wow! Thanks for the quick and very informative answers!

Here is a picture of the new small shrimp tank.
Question: How many shrimps in your opinion could live in there comfortably?

The other picture is my 80G tank. There are a few large Amano shrimps in there. The other fish never touch or bother them.
Question: Would you guys risk placing Fire Red Shrimps (or others) in there.

Regarding previous question 3: Would I be able to have my Fire Red with Tangerine and OEBTS?

Cheers...

 

[garfieldnfish]

No. Only one type of neos with one type of caridina, as different caridina can cross breed. Nice tanks BTW.

 

[bacon5]

Yes so you cannot keep two different kinds of tigers together, since it would defeat the whole purpose of selective breeding to a certain color type. Although you could keep tigers with bee shrimp (CRS/CBS) and just create your own ti-bees .

As for shrimp in the 80 gallon, go ahead! Just dont expect them to reproduce very well, just because the other fish will likely eat the offspring. I dont think the neons will really bother the adults much, and if they try, shrimp can move pretty fast

 

[WaterLife]

Wow...I just typed out a detailed response, but the site froze up when I was about to click the post button so I had to refresh the page, and now all the text is gone.
Well here I go again.

1. General rule of thumb is 10 shrimp per gallon. Though some have went 20-30 per gallon just fine. Though you can judge it based on how much room the shrimp have to move around. Remember to factor in the future shrimp offspring.

2. General consensus is that a fish will eat what whatever will fit in it's mouth. So gauge the shrimp safety size based on your largest fish's mouth size. From the fish I see in there, adult shrimp should be safe. Though don't expect many/any shrimplet babies surviving in there (so don't expect them to successfully reproduce much in there). More plant cover increases chance of young growing to a safe size not to be eaten.

3. Tangerine tigers and OEBT are both Caridinas so they will interbreed. Though, unlike Neocaridinas, when Caridinas interbreed, the offspring don't turn brown/wild-type. Crossing Caridinas can produce a variety of patterns, which can be really cool. You can ask on The Shrimp Spot forum to see what TT x OEBT offspring usually look like. With Tangerines being a wild/natural coloration, I would think most offspring would be orange and no black eyes (since orange eyes are recessive and need both parents to have that trait), but with some other cool colors.
So yeah, you can keep OEBT and TT together, just expect some interbreeding, so not all (since there will be some TT x TT and OEBT x OEBT, not just TT x OEBT) of the Caridinas will remain a true stable line/coloration of offspring.


Just to restate, water parameters are very important for keeping shrimp in good health. So do make sure have the water a healthy environment to keep them in, otherwise it defeats the whole purpose.

 

[Asterix1]

Once again, great info from all!

a, I am also using water from the 80G to refill the small tank. I have been doing this for the first week thinking that the water will have more beneficial bacteria to colonize the new tank.
Question: Is this a good idea?

b, I like your idea of keeping both OEBT and Tangerine (with the Fire Red). Having different colors come out could be interesting.
Question: Is this recommended or should I just stick to 1 Caridinas?

c, I was thinking of putting a few drops of Seachem Flourish or Trace in small tank to help plants.
Question: Should I do this or just let the the shrimps naturally fertilize the tank.

 

[maylee]

Beneficial bacteria lives on surfaces in the tank, not the water. So, there's no benefit to doing that.

I would stick with either tigers or OEBT. Honestly though, if you're a beginner, I'm not sure OEBTs are the best to get. They have a reputation for catching bacterial infections very easily if the tank is too warm, for instance.

 

[Asterix1]

Ok, I will avoid the OEBT. I have Eco-Complete substrate and also use Seachem Prime to condition the tap water.

Seems Tangerine might be the way to go. But I do hope to be able to get babies with them.

Should I get instead the Blue Bee, Aura Blue Tiger or Green Shrimp?

 

[WaterLife]

A. Tank water has very very little beneficial bacteria in it. Better off just using new fresh water, dechlorinated of course. Especially when there is shrimp or fish in the little tank as you would just be dumping in water with more TDS and nitrates (plus whatever water chemistry changes the old tank water has).

B. Most people prefer just keeping one Caridina. Some people like the cool coloration/patterns that come out of crossed Caridinas, however, those mutations from the cross breeding are not yet stable until the newly created strain further develops with repeated breedings to have the offspring come out more true. And with crossbreeding you do break the "pure" linebred pedigree. Better to just stick with one or the other. Tangerines would be easiest. TT x OEBT is not a commonly desired cross.

C. Many people still fertilize shrimp tanks. Some report no issues with shrimps, but some do think fertilizing lowers success rates with keeping the shrimp healthy and breeding. I think it is fine to fertilize as long as water parameters stay within healthy ranges for the shrimp.


I still don't know your water parameters so I don't know what shrimp is best suited for your water. Most likely Neos and Tigers are best. Blue Bee shrimp are soft acidic water and is most likely not compatible with your water, and they are more sensitive fish so they really are more recommendable for advanced shrimp keepers. True Aura Blue Tigers, despite being tigers, they do more so prefer water parameters closer to other soft acidic water Caridinas (CRS/CBS, BB, etc). I would only recommend them for more advanced shrimp keepers. Green shrimp, I am not sure if you are refering to Green Babaulti shrimp which are Caridinas, or Green Jade shrimp which are Neocaridinas. Green Jade Neos won't hybridize with Caridinas, but will interbreed with the Fire Red shrimp Neos. Babaulti's do prefer water similar to Neos and are quite adaptable, so they can probably work. However, I heard Tangerines are the most easily breed-able Caridinas and will easily interbreed with other Caridinas, but on the same note I have heard Babaulti's are one of the harder to breed Caridinas, so that's that. I would think Babaulti's can interbreed with Tangerines. I would just stick with Tangerines, especially if you are new to Caridinas. If you get the others without enough experience/knowledge, the shrimp likely won't do well. Tangerines have to be one of the easiest to keep and breed Caridinas, so they are a good first step. If you do well with those, you can always sell off the whole colony and step up to another Caridina that your water is suitable for.

So just get Tangerine Tigers.

 

[roostertech]

First thing, if you don't care for them to breed, you can keep neo with cardina. I threw some cardina into a neo tank, they grew nice a big, just won't breed. Even if they do, shrimplet probably won't survive.

You is pretty limited if you want parameter to be optimal for neo (most tap water are alkaline, perfect for neo). If you use active soil + ro water to lower pH for other types, neo will stop breeding (at least in my experiment).

 

[garfieldnfish]

Do not mix blue bee shrimp (para caridina) with neos. I have mixed blue velvets with blue bee shrimp and now have some shrimp that are a very light blue base color almost transparent with red splotches. Nice looking shrimp but I am almost positive a crossbreed been the two species. So far I found 3 of them and one is berried. Can't wait to see what the next generation will look like.
Tangerine tigers are your best choice.

 

[WaterLife]

Do not mix blue bee shrimp (para caridina) with neos. I have mixed blue velvets with blue bee shrimp and now have some shrimp that are a very light blue base color almost transparent with red splotches. Nice looking shrimp but I am almost positive a crossbreed been the two species. So far I found 3 of them and one is berried. Can't wait to see what the next generation will look like.
Tangerine tigers are your best choice.

Would be great to see pictures! Post on The Shrimp Spot forum as well! You should note the genders and how many shrimp of each species. Water parameters would even be appreciated.

Genus crossbreeding is possible although very very rare. Some have had Neos x Caridina tigers, but again that is extremely rare and offspring tend to be infertile. There has been known Paracardina crossbreeding with Caridinas that produce fertile offspring (then again Para are not much different that Caridinas).

My point is even if one person did manage to have that crossbreeding take place, it's just highly unlikely to happen for most people, so it should be safe for the OP to combine Neos with Para Blue bees and not have them crossbreed.

Can't say that I've heard of Paracaridinas crossbreeding with Neos. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if it really did, that is definitely something you should show to the world as it is a extremely rare occurrence, especially to have a berried/fertile offspring.

 

[garfieldnfish]

I am not very good in taking pictures but I will try to get my husband to do it for me. Those definitely don't look like blue velvets any more. And since the blue bees are the only other shrimp in the tank I am blaming the blue bees to mess up my velvets. The three odd balls are cool looking shrimp regardless but I do not know yet if they breed true. The one female has been carrying the eggs for about 1 week now. I think I will isolate her to see what comes out.
I have a 10 gal with tiny habrosus cory fry from which any shrimplets would be safe. I can adjust the water perimeters to that of the shrimp tank and move her over. Would also be easier to get a good picture of her in that tank. So stay tuned for updates.
I have absolutely no idea of how many blue bees or how many of what gender are in this tank. It is very heavily planted and I have not sold any in over 3 years but they have kept a decent population going but if I would have to guess I would say between 40 and 50, possibly way more. I added 20 blue velvets and they have also bred before so there are probably about 30 to 40 of the blue velvets as well. I only spotted 3 of the odd balls so far. There could be more. But the berried female always comes out at feeding time and should be easy to catch.