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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to move one fish out of QT to break up some bullying, but I am worried it's too soon. Help me weigh pros and cons!

Here's the set up: I ordered chili rasbora and endlers together and they came in 2.5 weeks ago. The endlers looked fine on arrival, but the chili rasbora were covered in ich. Both groups went directly into my quarantine tank (so glad I had it set up!) and I treated everybody with Ich-X and some salt with daily water changes. Two rasbora died pretty quickly, but everybody else seemed to pull through and it's been more than a week since I have seen any sign of ich, but I kept treating beyond the recommended length of time because I'm paranoid and I'm not sure there's any real downside.

The endlers never showed any sign of ich, but the three smaller ones pester the larger one constantly. I want to move the larger one into my community tank so he can enjoy some "alone" time away from the group and continue to monitor everybody else in QT for a while longer, but obviously I don't want ich in my main tank. What would you do?
 

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I want to move one fish out of QT to break up some bullying, but I am worried it's too soon. Help me weigh pros and cons!



Here's the set up: I ordered chili rasbora and endlers together and they came in 2.5 weeks ago. The endlers looked fine on arrival, but the chili rasbora were covered in ich. Both groups went directly into my quarantine tank (so glad I had it set up!) and I treated everybody with Ich-X and some salt with daily water changes. Two rasbora died pretty quickly, but everybody else seemed to pull through and it's been more than a week since I have seen any sign of ich, but I kept treating beyond the recommended length of time because I'm paranoid and I'm not sure there's any real downside.



The endlers never showed any sign of ich, but the three smaller ones pester the larger one constantly. I want to move the larger one into my community tank so he can enjoy some "alone" time away from the group and continue to monitor everybody else in QT for a while longer, but obviously I don't want ich in my main tank. What would you do?
When treating ich they will fall to the ground on the substrate and stay there till the environment change to the best for him again, do really good water changes.

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When treating ich they will fall to the ground on the substrate and stay there till the environment change to the best for him again, do really good water changes.

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This is actually incorrect. Ich parasite is host-dependent. It cannot survive in substrate and must complete its life-cycle with a host in order to survive,

Bump:
Temperature and kh is important when treating ich, nice one dude

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Im female :)
 

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Stages of its life cycle are not on the fish

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Yes, you are correct. But, these stages must continue- they do not go into a latent or dormant state outside the host. [There are examples where an encysted parasite can go latent on the host under gill cover or skin, but it is very rare.]
But, the cysts, when they fall to substrate to reproduce are only there long enough to do just that- reproduce. The pace of this reproduction is temperature dependent. But, even at low temperatures ( like in an outdoor pond) like, at 50 degrees, for example, the parasite is actively reproducing itself to go to the next stage-- the free-swimming stage.



As this attached article demonstrates:




"To complete its life cycle, Ich requires from less than 4 days (at temperatures higher than 75oF or 24oC) to more than 5 weeks (at temperatures lower than 45oF or 7oC)."

https://aquaculture.ca.uky.edu/sites/aquaculture.ca.uky.edu/files/srac_476_ich_white_spot_disease.pdf
 

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Yes, you are correct. But, these stages must continue- they do not go into a latent or dormant state outside the host. [There are examples where an encysted parasite can go latent on the host under gill cover or skin, but it is very rare.]
But, the cysts, when they fall to substrate to reproduce are only there long enough to do just that- reproduce. The pace of this reproduction is temperature dependent. But, even at low temperatures ( like in an outdoor pond) like, at 50 degrees, for example, the parasite is actively reproducing itself to go to the next stage-- the free-swimming stage.



As this attached article demonstrates:




"To complete its life cycle, Ich requires from less than 4 days (at temperatures higher than 75oF or 24oC) to more than 5 weeks (at temperatures lower than 45oF or 7oC)."

https://aquaculture.ca.uky.edu/sites/aquaculture.ca.uky.edu/files/srac_476_ich_white_spot_disease.pdf
Ok os dont do the water changes cleaning the bottom, just pray for it .

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is one time where a heater would have been useful. My tanks are running at 72 +/- a degree, maybe a little higher after some water changes because it's been so warm it's coming out of the tap at 74 or 75.

The directions for Ich-X suggest a 25% WC every day before treatment and I have been vacuuming while I do that. It's bare bottom, so there's no substrate.
 

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Can I make a suggestion that might help with the question? I do not favor moving the fish so soon as it is really risky to push on ich. Waiting is almost always far better than risking being a day too soon and possibly having it in the main tank. Advantages too small for the very large risks involved so I do other things.
Fish being harassed, is often a matter of poor tank setup when dealing with this type fish. Fish stress IS very bad, so how about adding a jumble of various cover to let anybody who needs rest go for it? You are correct in wanting the bare bottom and less cover does let you check the fish easier but when looking at the two options, I would favor going with more cover over possibly moving the fish too soon and getting ich where you don't want it. Keep in mind that there may be one single little ich hiding out like under a gill cover where you can't see it but a week more of QT will tell the story.
For that type/size fish, plastic cups turned over and a rock added makes quick, cheap, and easy cover that you can peek in as well as clean around without much trouble. If you observe the fish may need a backdoor, cut half the bottom out? PVC pipe if on hand? A variety will be good and let tehm choose what they like best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I ended up leaving all fish in the QT and adding a bunch more anacharis trimmings and hardscape with java moss and the endler's have chilled out significantly. The larger one never separated himself from the group, but the additional cover has had a calming effect on the whole tank. There's still no sign of an ich resurgence, but I'm happy to leave them in here another week or two, especially if they all seem happier.

Thanks for the advice, y'all! I'm such a beginner with fish and really appreciate being able to tap into people with more experience.
 

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Sounds good! Hope it works well for you and one thing I might pass on is how much better I get along with my fish if I try to watch and really understand some of what looks so weird at times. Not to get too involved with saying fish do the same as humans because they do have lots of different responses but there are some things that I can see which totally work the same as it does with us.
Their reactions are often more basic than us, like they rarely fall in love, nor hate each other but they do react to things we might call near the same.
If they get beat up by a fish, they may avoid that fish, while we might say we hate them. So when we see a fish doing something odd, like hiding in the corner, be aware they may be doing the same thing we do when we don't feel good!
That puts us finding lots of value in just watching our fish for what is "normal" and "odd" as that is often the first clue to something we may need to change. If the fish is hiding to avoid the bully, we need to react differently than if he is hiding because he has a big white spot on his head? If you suddenly find a pair of egg laying fish who have always been peaceful and now are terrible and one of them is fat, it's a different thing than just them becoming jerks!
Take the time to watch your fish and ask why they are doing things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sounds good! Hope it works well for you and one thing I might pass on is how much better I get along with my fish if I try to watch and really understand some of what looks so weird at times. Not to get too involved with saying fish do the same as humans because they do have lots of different responses but there are some things that I can see which totally work the same as it does with us.
Their reactions are often more basic than us, like they rarely fall in love, nor hate each other but they do react to things we might call near the same.
If they get beat up by a fish, they may avoid that fish, while we might say we hate them. So when we see a fish doing something odd, like hiding in the corner, be aware they may be doing the same thing we do when we don't feel good!
That puts us finding lots of value in just watching our fish for what is "normal" and "odd" as that is often the first clue to something we may need to change. If the fish is hiding to avoid the bully, we need to react differently than if he is hiding because he has a big white spot on his head? If you suddenly find a pair of egg laying fish who have always been peaceful and now are terrible and one of them is fat, it's a different thing than just them becoming jerks!
Take the time to watch your fish and ask why they are doing things.
Yeah, I've already had situations where I think I've overreacted to fish behavior and situations where I've underreacted, but I've tried to learn from both and get better calibrated to what is normal and what isn't. It's not rocket science, but there's a lot of nuance and different situations that can crop up, and I'm sure each species is a little different.
 

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One of the things which has kept me in the game so long is moving from one group to others. Cichlids are a very large group and they have been my favorite for a very long time as there are so many different cichlids that I'm not likely to ever get around to even one out of the various sub-groups.
Most of us know about the common angelfish as we see them so much but if we are used to some group like the egg scattering groups like tetra, we can get into a whole different set of watching if we study some of the reasons each group may do things.
Just the whole breeding method of prepping a site, doing the courtship, laying and fertilizing the eggs is a full lesson BEFORE the eggs hatch! After can then be a whole realm of it's own if we choose to raise any of the fry. Watching some of the small calm cichlids herd a group of possibly a hundred fry around as they grow is quite a kick!
But that is what appeals to me and may not appeal to others as much but this hobby does have lots of room for looking for new things to do, so we can go as far as most of us will ever feel the need!
 
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