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What's on my angel?

2094 Views 11 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  wkndracer
This white spot has been around for over two months. I tried to treat with salt, pimafix and melafix....nothing has worked and the condition hasn't worsened. Sorry for the blurry pic.
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is the white spot like ich?
or does it look light and fluffy like?
are ther any signs anywer else of this white "spot" on your angel fish or any of your other fish?
No, it's not ich....way too big and isolated. It's not really fluffy in a fungal sense, either. It hasn't spread at all in the 5+ weeks since I moved him out of quarantine.
How long have you had the angel? Does it look like a wound of some sort? Is it possible it was there all along, getting bigger as the fish grew? It could just be a birthmark? It doesn't look like ich to me either. Is it raised at all?
Hi, and maybe I've seen this:icon_sad:
The photo is not the clearest but does it appear almost zit like?
Not bulging but like white material in an open pore?

Very nice looking fish by the way.

I know it's REALLY hard to get a good photo. Mine had this (much smaller looking)

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How long have you had the angel? Does it look like a wound of some sort? Is it possible it was there all along, getting bigger as the fish grew? It could just be a birthmark? It doesn't look like ich to me either. Is it raised at all?
I've had the angel for about 15 months. This showed up in the past two months; I'm almost positive it wasn't there before.

Thanks wkndracer, and yes, your description is accurate. When it first started I believed the fish's eye was starting to bulge. Now I'm not sure if it ever was. At this point it seems completely stable.

The point you are showing is a gland on Discus and Angelfish.
If not treated it can turn into hole in the head . I have a breeder discus that I am currently treating with great results.
I did not Isolate or remove him. He is treated in a 90g.

1st treatment
1st a 30 sec to 1 min soak in a potassium permanganate bath.
(Locate your own recipe depending on fish.)
I generally have my water in a bucket and it looks like grape juice.

2nd treatment
Then I feed for 1 week.
Anit-Protozon food. Containing metronidazole :
It is for Hexamita and Spironucleus

Hexamita is caused by intestinal flagellated protozoa and attacks the digestive system and the lower intestines of infected fish. The symptoms of this disease are often confused with those of hole in the head diseases as these two diseases usually are present at the same time in a fish. They are however two separate diseases that each needs to be treated. Some fish species are especially prune to Hexamita such as large cichlids and especially Oscar and discus fish.
Spironucleus ,In discus, the prime organism responsible for much of the woe described above has been identified as Spironucleus vortens (an organism that also affects other cichlids e.g. Angels, Pterophyllum scalare, P. Altum etc (Paull and Matthews, 2001).
3rd treatment
Then for 1 more week I feed only Antibiotic food:
Containing Kanamycin :

4th treatment
Then I follow that by a 1 week of regular food with 1 feeding a day of
De-worming food and 1 feeding a day of a good vitamin enriched food.

My discus had visible holes on both sides of it head. About 2 - 2.5 mm wide. Had noticeable white stringy stuff looking like a worm , sometimes as long as 4-5 mm .
It was not a worm as it could be wiped off with a Q tip.

The holes are now healed and no scaring is visible.
I have had 1 recurrence of the white stuff. Barely visible , looking like a pimple.
I immediately re-started the Antibiotic treatment and with in 1 day it was again gone. I did however continue the Antibiotic feeding for the remainder of the 1 week feeding cycle.

He is again spot free.

Again I only fed these foods and nothing more for the 2 weeks.
If this is caught early and the fish still have good appetites it should help.
How ever if the fish has stopped eating then it cant work.
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What QCD posted is correct and I didn't catch mine soon enough and lost them to HTH.
The treatment most miss all together is to WORM YOUR FISH! We treat our dogs, cats, pigs, horse's, cows,,, the list is endless. but not our fish. Not anymore for this fish keeper.
I now start internally with all new fish and go from there.
1st flubendazole, 2nd levaisole hcl and metronidazole, most everything's covered for parasites.
Flubendazole and levaisole hcl are water column dosed and help even when fish hunger strikes.
Flubendazole is a plant safe parasite treatment but has to be ordered online (to my knowledge). It covers a broad range of bugs too. (not all but a bunch) *** it also kills snails but is safe for shrimp by user reports including folks here on TPT.
Velvet and ick are also covered by a flu treatment Doc sells as little or as much as you want.
Article links;

External treatments include H2O2 and salt. (salt use is really rare for me)
Initial bacterial treatment (bare tank scaled fish only) if indicated is a 3% HP bath. Standard over the counter 3% hydrogen peroxide mixed to 10mL per gallon.
1 U.S. Teaspoon = 4.92892159 milliliters
2 teaspoons of H2O2 per gallon is perfect!

2-3 hour soak then 50% WC, 24hrs. later another 25% WC and the treatment is complete.
This treatment is the dose used to kill algae and practically all bacteria and parasites, protozoan’s, etc.

3% topical hydrogen peroxide treatment in an established tank.

Treatment of 10mL per gallon is still the dose used. Established treatment at this dosage is to isolate the filter (shut it down) allow for circulation with a power head or air stone. 3-5 hour stand time (longer due to tank bacteria in gravel etc,) on the treatment then do a 50% water change followed by a 25% water change after 24 hours. The filter can be restarted after the 50% water change. Delicate plants can melt.

This is the highest dosing of HP recommended by fish breeders on my other favorite website. I've used this dosing level twice to good result and followed the water changing recommendation.

HP has strong oxidizing properties. It is a powerful bleaching agent. The oxidizing capacity of hydrogen peroxide is so strong that it is considered a highly reactive oxygen. (Wikipedia)

H2O2 effects the slime coat and really weakened fish don't handle it well. Scaleless fish are burned bad enough not to survive.

Back in 2009 I treated mine with H2O2 and antibiotic's both gram negative and positive. Thought it helped. Knocked back the external signs but left latent parasites internal to the fish that destroyed them from the inside out.

TAFF II (imo) is the best angelfish site on the web.
This for me as I've posted goes back to March 2009.
My first post on TAFF II;
Unable to positively identify or treat. Fish has been isolated since 1/19/09.
Symptom/observation: a pimple like discharge and only appears above the eyes, very much site specific and linear in appearance. 2-4 white dots that seem to excrete, then fill again. Hunger strike and hiding behavior of 72hrs. prior to appearance and isolation. I've searched the web repeatedly without successfully match this site specific affliction. After trying various parasite, fungal, bacteria treatment regimes its a wonder its still alive. Potassium permanganate was first used in conjuction with Coppersafe and his fins burnt off. This is what some call a super veil double black that I would very much like to save. Anyone?

Nothing gets into my systems now without 45 day's of treatments and observation.
Really hope this info helps.
Thanks for the tips. I looked today and it's now more of a white ring with an abcess in the middle.

Hey QC Discus,,,let me know if you're ever in the DeKalb area looking to offload a few blue rams!
You can also try, Jungle ani-parasite tabs and food.

Is the angel acting normal and eating?
It's acting completely normal. I did try a treatment of the Jungle tabs to begin with. I'm feeding anti-bacterial food right now. I might give the tabs another try before long.
Soft water warning

You can also try, Jungle ani-parasite tabs and food.

Is the angel acting normal and eating?
For those reading this tread who have soft water be very careful if you choose to use Jungles parasite of fungus tabs.
These meds can (and have) caused chemical burns. Even angels which are scaled can be burned but far worse for loaches, Cory's and the scaleless. Best practice is to dissolve the tabs in a pitcher or bucket then pour the soup slowly into the tank spreading the medication out.

I used to stock these products and while not mentioned in my post above these were tried on those affected angels in 2009. It was one of the products that masked external indication but did not completely kill off the parasites. Saying that I'll also say I carefully follow dosing instruction when using medications. Hesitating to further post a negative (yet doing it anyway:icon_eek:) These products are a last choice of the desperate (imo) being readily available due to mass marketing through chain stores and LFS. High profit for the seller and broad spectrum being a combination chemical package. Better to treat the bug and infection separately in my opinion but that takes knowledge and mine is a 50/50 split based on experience.
I do believe though that the root problem behind bacterial and fungal infections the majority of the time is parasitic in nature. First the bug, then the secondary infection of bacteria or fungus.
Fish weakened by some trauma (injury or even shipping) are overcome by bacteria that is always present but held in check by the immune system. Just as we are exposed to and contain bacteria in our bodies naturally.

Anyway sorry for the babble of a two finger typist but with soft water careful using those fizz tab medications.
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