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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry this is kind Long.....:icon_roll

Below is a diagram of my current setup, minus the new Emersed Plant Filter and with a very near future Water Refill Container:



The problem I am currently having is with the Refill portion of my Auto WC System. I am currently refilling with 100% RODI water (0ppm TDS).

The In-flow and Out-flow of Main Tank B is just a pump (Via Aqua 1800: Max Head=6', 480gph) up through 1" ID tubing through a 1" bulkhead and into a 1/2" PVC spraybar. The Out-flow is just a 1" bulkhead strainer through a 1" bulkhead reduced to 3/4" through a 3/4" Gate Valve and then down to the sump via 3/4" tubing.

I am having 2 problems--one of which can be eliminated by solving problem 1. 1) Once the sump drains to a low level from the Auto drain cycle--the added 9" of head reduces the In-flow enough to where the Out-flow of Main Tank B starts "Sucking Air". This causes noise, and more importantly: Vibrations in Main Tank B. The Vibrations stress out the snake and seriously need to be eliminated. The problem is that by refilling (currently) about 19g of RODI water takes a number of hours. I want to eliminate/greatly reduce that time frame by adding a "Refill Tank"--so the RODI water is already made and ready to go. The pump that I intend on using will currently pump about 1g/2min, so I am looking at a 40 min refill time--as opposed to about 4+ hours. The pump, of course, will be on a timer set appropriately.

Problem 2) is simply a fluctuating water level in Main Tank B created when the Out-flow Siphon breaks and then finally re-establishes at some point as the sump refills. This problem can be eliminated by--hopefully--eliminating the water level drop in the sump.

I have the simple option of allowing the drain cycle to complete and then pumping in the RODI Refill Water--but that will not eliminate the water level drop in the sump--or Problems 1 & 2.

I can begin the Refill X mins BEFORE the drain cycle starts allowing the sump to fill up completely--raising the water level and hopefully eliminating the WL Drop in the sump.

I do not know how many GPH flow that I have through the system--but it is low--its a slow flow system. The Over-flow on Main Tank A is a DIY 1" PVC Over-the Rim setup, and I believe that it could very easily handle the extra 1/2gpm input into Main Tank A.

So, my question, after all of this, is: Would pumping the Refill Water into the Right-side of Main Tank A---which is the Furthest point from the drain pump in the sump Seriously help eliminate wasting the new RODI water to the drain cycle?

With the current setup the Refill water will enter Main Tank A at the same point that the "Dirty" water is being returned from the sump. It will mix with the "dirty" water and at least initially help push the "dirty" water in Main Tank A Out. Water from Main Tank A then Over-flows into the bottom of the Aquatic Plant filter and over-flows at the top opposite end into the sump. Some will also be pumped up to the Emersed Plant Filter--the pump for that is located at the top of the Incoming end of the Aquatic Plant Filter, so some of the new+"dirty" water mix will go up to the EPF.

I've no doubt that this can all seem pretty confusing--hence the diagram at the top.

The Drainage cycle is going to be 10-12 mins.

Any thoughts on how much waste of perfectly Good, Clean water I will suffer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
First experiment: No Drain. Emersed Plant Filter drained into system (~6g). Added~7gal more RODI via pump/refill tank--directly into sump; took ~11mins to pump.

Result: Sump did not overflow. Main Tank B increased its water level by several inches (4"+).

Next experiment: Have to wait for RO to make more water. Then 10g RODI colored Green w/ food coloring into Main Tank A (pump head ~46"--Yes, this pump will actually do about 59").
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok, I can resolve this problem with some tinkering--NP.

Not sure what I was thinking, but I didn't need to wait for more RO water. I had added enough w/ the EPF turned off and the 7g extra. So I just removed about 9g from the sump and put it into the refill tank (10g) and ran the experiment.

The experiment came out ok--not great or perfect, but very informative.

With the Green food coloring it does not appear that I will lose very much fresh, clean water during the 12min (~30g) drain cycle.

Now I just need a 29g Tank, and more importantly--a place to put it!

Now a lot of You folks already know that sometimes I just need a place to come and sit and talk to myself out-loud, so: Thanx! for listening! :proud:
 

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I don't quite understand it. Where does the water (RO) start from. And where does it drain to?
Maybe you already stated it, but it looks kind of closed loop?? Or is the refill tank the holding tank of RO to start the show? And where does the oldest water drain to?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I don't quite understand it. Where does the water (RO) start from. And where does it drain to?
Maybe you already stated it, but it looks kind of closed loop?? Or is the refill tank the holding tank of RO to start the show? And where does the oldest water drain to?
Hi Betowess,

The Incoming RO and outgoing tank water are not shown. Currently, the incoming RO water comes from the RO unit directly into the sump and is controlled by a Kent Float valve. Once I get a Refill tank setup the RO will go into that and be controlled by a float valve, then it will be pumped into the tank at water change time.

The drain is a 300gph quiet one pump that pumps from the sump via 1/2"ID tubing to the outside into a pitcher plant garden that I have. It pumps right at 2.5gpm setup the way it is. So, in 12 mins I can drain 29-30g of water.

I am running my tests with a spare 10g as the Refill tank. Once I get this sorted out I will setup a 29g tank for the refill, drill a hole for the float valve and allow the RO unit to keep it filled. Just pump what is need at water change time and it should eliminate Problems 1 & 2 listed previously. Then the RO unit has all night/day to refill the 29g refill tank--Problems Solved.

The only tinkering that I really need to do is determining the timing of the start of the Emersed Plant Filter drainage and RO Refill water vs. the start of the drain cycle. The time frames are not real narrow, so it should be pretty easy to sort out. It'll just take time waiting on the RO unit to produce enough water.

Hope this makes more sense....
 

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Thanks for the explaination, I figured it was something like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I got this tentatively sorted out. Won't be able to sort it out 100% until I get the actual refill tank (29g) and get it in place (--the hardest part :icon_mrgr ).

But for anyone who cares, this is what worked:

Start Refill pump (adds 2.25g to system). 9min later stop emersed plant filter (~7g diry water drains to sump). 9min later start system drain. Drains for 12mins (~28.5g). Stop system drain. 45 mins later start plant filter. Stop refill pump 68mins later.

That's for a 23g refill, not 28.5. The difference in that case was just made up for by the Direct RO line and controlled by the KM Float Valve.

I believe that I will be removing the KMFV from the system sump for various reasons. We'll see......:proud:
 
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