Water - Confused

1311 Views 13 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Zoidburg, Feb 20, 2017

ambe

Discussion Starter · Feb 16, 2017

Hi all, I am wanting to start a shrimp only tank and think I will go for cherry shrimp to start with. What is sending me around the bend is my water parameters.

They are (taken from water company's website):
KH 2.2
GH 3.3
PH 8
NB. that the PH is high because they add something to boost it.

I have an 80L already that is quite heavily stocked with rasboras and tetras and the PH tends to drop to around 7, but I can't measure the KH or GH to see if it changes. It is moderately planted with low light plants and I don't fertilise or add co2. The shrimp tank will be set up in the same way.

I have seen people say that their shrimp do fine in GH3 and others say they have problems in GH 4 and are advised to raise to GH6. This leads me to believe that it isn't just GH, it is the entire set up?

I am wondering about these options:
1. Drop the shrimp in and see what happens.
2. Add some cuttlefish bone... and will this be ok as a dietary supplement or is the GH needed in the general water composition to help shrimp?
3. Buy something fancy to raise the GH. And will this send my PH too high?
4. Go RO water but I really don't want to do this.

Thanks for any input.

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Willcooper

· #2 · Feb 16, 2017

You can use gh booster which isn't expensive and baking soda can raise your kh. Neos do fine in a slightly higher ph (you could use co2 or aquasoil to lower it) but do need calcium to properly molt. You may be fine with those gh readings and then again you may need to raise it. I would inquire from the person you buy them from what kind of parameters they were raised in.

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Jardiamj

· #3 · Feb 16, 2017

Crushed coral in my filter works well for me in raising GH and KH.

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Zoidburg

· #4 · Feb 16, 2017

My tap water comes out at 3-4 GH and KH (starts changing at 3, full change at 4), and the cherry shrimp I added died due to too low GH. Would have multiple berried females. None of the babies survived to adult-hood. That was before knowing that shrimp require specific parameters.

Once I raised the GH up, the shrimp started to thrive. Babies growing to adults. Adults not having problems molting.

You need to get the API, Sera or similar GH and KH liquid test kits so you can measure the water yourself. Then get some GH booster, if required, to raise the levels for shrimp.

RO water is not healthy for shrimp. Remineralized RO water, to the right parameters, is fine. If you do have soft tap, you may be fine adding minerals to your tap to get desired parameters.

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[email protected]

· #5 · Feb 16, 2017

RO water is not healthy for shrimp ?

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Sherminator

· #6 · Feb 16, 2017

[email protected] said:
RO water is not healthy for shrimp ?

To top your tanks off its fine, but straight in the tank without being remineralized can be a problem.

Then again I've been topping my tank off with no water changes (remineralized) for almost 8-10 months and I had an accidental 95% water pump out a few weeks ago :surprise:

Thats when I decided I'd do it right again (I was working out of state and moved)

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[email protected]

· #7 · Feb 16, 2017

Cool Thanks for the info

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Zoidburg

· #8 · Feb 16, 2017

[email protected] said:
RO water is not healthy for shrimp ?

Yes. *STRAIGHT* RO water is *NOT* healthy for shrimp....

i.e. Set a tank up using strictly RO water. This will result in shrimp dying because there are no minerals in the water. Found out the reason why shrimp at one of the LFS look horrible.... all their freshwater tanks are RO, no minerals.

If you remineralize the RO water, then it's fine.

i.e. Set up a tank using Salty Shrimp GH/KH mixed into RO water to a GH of 6, KH 3, TDS of 210 (for an example). *THIS* is fine!

If raising Caridina shrimp (re: crystals, tibees), then most people are going to need to go the RO route with a GH+ remineralizer. (no KH) Their tap water would not be suitable for the Caridinas to live in due to too high amounts of KH and possibly GH as well.

Ambe and I both have soft tap water which is not suitable for shrimp, so we need to remineralize it anyway to get better parameters. Other people may have water that is too hard, and need to soften it using RO/DI water, or skip the process and just use remineralized RO/DI water.

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Jardiamj

· #9 · Feb 17, 2017

If raising Caridina shrimp (re: crystals, tibees), then most people are going to need to go the RO route with a GH+ remineralizer. (no KH) Their tap water would not be suitable for the Caridinas to live in due to too high amounts of KH and possibly GH as well.

Quick question, my tap water KH fluctuates between 1 and 3. If I remineralize it with Salty Shrimp GH, would that be suitable for Caridina shrimp or is that to much KH? The pH never goes above 7.0.
Is 0-1 KH absolutely necessary for Caridina shrimp?

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Zoidburg

· #10 · Feb 17, 2017

Jardiamj said:
Quick question, my tap water KH fluctuates between 1 and 3. If I remineralize it with Salty Shrimp GH, would that be suitable for Caridina shrimp or is that to much KH? The pH never goes above 7.0.
Is 0-1 KH absolutely necessary for Caridina shrimp?

If you can find Caridina in higher pH, then that's fine. However, for best success, and since most sellers keep Caridina in 0-1 KH, you are better off using remineralized RO with a buffering substrate.

Now, you *could* use your tap water, with the GH remineralized to the correct parameters, however this will result in your buffering substrate (which will keep the pH at 6.8 or below) losing it's buffering capacities sooner. Most Caridinas do best in slightly acidic conditions, as compared to Neos who typically do best in neutral or alkaline conditions.

Buffering substrates aren't cheap, per-say, and it's recommended to replace it once a year. Done right, it's possible to have buffering substrate going for 3+ years, but done wrong, it could last less than a year. I personally wouldn't recommend using other techniques of lowering pH beyond a buffering substrate, as they are more likely to result in unstable parameters and/or unnecessary TDS.

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ambe

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 17, 2017

Thanks for the help. I have ordered a GH KH test kit and will see what happens. I might buy some stuff to raise the GH or throw a cuttlefish bone in and experiment (before adding shrimp). It's never cheap this hobby is it!

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FishRFriendz

· #12 · Feb 17, 2017

Also get a TDS pen. Doesn't sound like you have one. I once had water that was KH 5, GH 8 which looks perfect, but the TDS was over 500. It was really hard water and it was why I was getting 50% losses when acclimating new shrimp.

Also, after you've tested kh/gh and get a TDS count, it'll be an easy indicator for you rather than having to test kh/gh you can start to guesstimate your values just off the TDS reading which is a hella lot easier to do than a kh/gh test.

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ambe

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 20, 2017

Update:

FishRFriendz, I did buy a TDS meter at the same time, more on that later!

My readings after tests on my water from the tap and water in established fish tank (50% water change 3 days ago) are very similar:

Tap:
KH 2
GH 4
PH 7ish
TDS 66

Tank:
KH 2
GH 4
PH 7ish
TDS 88

The TDS meter I got from ebay very cheap, and now I've found this video and mine is the same as the dodgy ones, and has no screw on the back. Therefore, I have no idea if my TDS readings are correct.

I think I will buy some GH+ anyway to be on the safe side because it will raise the TDS and GH4 is very borderline.

One very idiotic question... can I test the TDS with fish/shrimp in or will it electrocute them? :grin2:

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Zoidburg

· #14 · Feb 20, 2017

You do want TDS to be 130+, preferably 150+.

You could still get the calibration unit, and plus or minus however much the meter is off compared to the tank. That is, if the calibration is 324, TDS meter reads 294, then it would be +30. If your tank reads 88, then +30, it'd be 118.

I have yet to electrocute shrimp using a TDS meter!

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