[Max]

Greeting,

I have a 30G freshwater tank with 4 tetras (3 red eye + 1 black phantom) and 3 ottos. The tank is planted. The filtration is done through Eheim 2213 canister filter. I am using injected CO2 and dry fertilizers following EI method. So at the moment the tank is definitely understocked. I am doing 50% WC every Sunday. When I have tested the water today for Ammonia, it's 0, ph is in the range 6.6 - 6.8. There are definitely some nitrates in the water since I am adding these three times per week for the plants. KH is around 9º and GH is ~ 4º. I have no means to measure TDS at the moment.
The problem with this tank is that all 4 tetras have some sort of issues. Let me show the issues through the photos.

First the general view of the tank:

There is adequate (maybe even too strong) circulation within the tank from the outlet filter pipe and the water pump connected to the CO2 reactor that pumps out the water with the dissolved CO2.

Now let's talk fish:

The black phantom tetra has its spinal fin frayed. One of it's pelvic fins has some red striking but less than other tetras. No behavioral anomalies have been observed - swims, eats as normal. I haven's seen if it keeps the fins closed.

A red eye tetra with affected spinal and anal fins. The fish would normally hang around near surface where the current is the weakest. It would eat once the feeding time arrives.

Here the same fish with red striking and another tetra that has frayed spinal fin in addition to the red striking. The one with eaten fin has no changes in behaviour, might keep the fins closed.

All three red eye tetras. The left one has weight issues, the middle has red striking and eaten fin, the right one has only the red striking. The eaten fins would heal on it's own and then the cycle carries on.

Tetra that looks too slim and weightless:

While studying the Internet for possible diseases, I came across the wasting disease. I had 5 red eye tetras and 5 black phantom ones. What I would see is that a fish looses its weight in similar way as the weightless tetra on the photo and eventually dies. This might happen during many months. No sudden deaths.

As for the red striking on the fins, the only disease that comes to my mind is septimicia. Not sure of any other causes. The tank has been setup probably somewhere in 2011-2012 with a goldfish which eventually died. It had some red striking on its tail fins which I could not treat at all. Loving aquarium as a hobby, what I most dislike is figuring out what is a disease and how to treat it. And then I had to spend tens and tens of dollars to cure a 5$ fish. If I attempt treating these fishes, I need to be certain of what I am treating against. If it's going to cost me again dollars I would rather discard the fishes and disinfect the fishtank and start over.

As for improvements I will receive new filter media today to increase the area for beneficial bacteria + will introduce the carbon into the filter. I have a hospital tank which I could use for treatment.

Any suggestions? Starting all over or trying to treat the fishes? Could the causes be wasting disease and septimicia or maybe something which could be treated. Thank you in advance.

 

[Nordic]

So, what have you been feeding them? they are showing signs of nutrient shortage.
I'd try feeding some frozen blood worms or even better yet, live food.
As long as you can keep a fish eating, you can save it... unless it suffered some organ damage before.

I would also as a precaution dose levamisole or prazipro or something to kill worms and nematodes they may be harbouring internally.
Does their faeces look normal?.

 

[Max]

So, what have you been feeding them? they are showing signs of nutrient shortage.
I'd try feeding some frozen blood worms or even better yet, live food.
As long as you can keep a fish eating, you can save it... unless it suffered some organ damage before.

During the working week I would give some dry flakes either HBH tropical fish frenzy or some brine shrimp flakes. On the weekends I would give frozen blood worms. Then I stopped giving the frozen worms thinking that the parasites might be transmitted through this food. It was not a Hikari product. Now I am feeding them dry Tubifex and Blood worms as well as Daphnia (dry) produced by Hikari, interchanging them randomly.

I would also as a precaution dose levamisole or prazipro or something to kill worms and nematodes they may be harbouring internally.
Does their faeces look normal?.

I have performed a prazipro treatment ~2 months ago (a dose of PP, then after 4 days 25%WC, then another dose of PP, then after another 4 days another 25%WC). Now I am thinking of performing this to newly acquired fish which I have not yet done. As for the faeces I need to observe this, can't say anything at the moment but do not remember seeing anything strange.

 

[Nordic]

Ok, so you have the diet covered, prazi unfortunately doesn't kill everything, (well, nothing does really) so if their poop looks stringy or grey you might want to think about getting levamisol, it is a bit broader spectrum, but you need to dose those fish at half strength, repeated after 3 weeks.

 

[Diana]

Here is a write up about Levamisole.
Levamisole Hydrochloride ? Loaches Online

Loaches seem to get this issue more than other species, so look around at Loaches for more details, use Wasting Disease or Skinny Disease in a search of the forums.

Treatment for fish that may have internal parasites and a bacterial issue (fin rot, other):

Anti-parasite. As Nordic suggests, a change in product, since many of your fish have been treated with Prazi-Pro. Levamisole also boosts the immune system.
Often this involves treating/waiting/treating perhaps over a 3 day period.

big water change, vacuum the floor of the tank, add activated carbon for 24 hours.

Antibiotics- targeted at the specific disease, if you can figure out what. Otherwise, just make sure the medicine treats Gram negative bacteria (many fish diseases are Gram negative bacteria). Either add the medicine to the food, or make sure it will enter the fishes' body via the gills. Kanamycin is one such medicine, there are others.
Follow the treatment dosing on the package. Often 5 days.

big water change, vacuum the floor of the tank, add activated carbon for 24 hours.

Repeat until you have done at least 2 of each treatment.
It seems like a lot, but if the fish immune system is weak they cannot fight off the bacteria or parasites. As the medicines start working their immune system gets stronger, and they can fight off these things.

Euthanizing these fish will not solve the problem. The parasites are in the tank, and many have a resting stage where they do not need to feed for a while. They will just infest the next fish you buy.

 

[Max]

Diana, Nordic, thanks for suggesting Levamisole. Now the usual Canadian way of finding medicines - hunt for it and pay extra for having a privilege to have it since it is so scarce here in the North. I will check with the vet clinics as well for possibilities. It might be as a prescription here.

 

[mistergreen]

try metronidazole too.
The parasite might be protozoans and not worms so prazi and levamisole might have no effect.

 

[Max]

Ok, so you have the diet covered, prazi unfortunately doesn't kill everything, (well, nothing does really) so if their poop looks stringy or grey you might want to think about getting levamisol, it is a bit broader spectrum, but you need to dose those fish at half strength, repeated after 3 weeks.

Well looked at the fish yesterday and today and the poop does not look like it is either stringy or grey.

Bump: So far, the recommendations are:

1. levamisole or metronidazole
2. Kanamycin (kanaplex)

Now the question is if levamisole goes well with kanamycin together, or the treatments should be carried separately? Metronidazole with kanamycin?

 

[mistergreen]

If the parasites are worms, you would see them hanging from the anus. I would try Metro first.

 

[Nordic]

Yes, it is a it milder and might be better for fish in a weakened system.

 

[Max]

If the parasites are worms, you would see them hanging from the anus. I would try Metro first.

I have never seen anything hanging from their anuses. That is why I was surprised to see the suggestion of levamisole. Thanks for suggestion.

 

[Nordic]

It is a very broad acting anti parasite medicine.
I have even dosed quite sick fish with it.

 

[Max]

A quick update.

Canadian pet industry is a joke. So far I was able to locate and order/purchase metroplex and levamisole. I have already performed twice metro treatments. Still waiting for levamisole to arrive from Vancouver. I have ordered kanaplex with a LFS but checked with other LFS from the area and no one carries it. Even amazon has a single source of kanaplex, which is being sold by someone who knows where s/he lives. It "should" arrive next week but that's not certain.

Since I still have no kanaplex I will try tomorrow polyguard as a broad spectrum alternative (giving it a try) The fishes have responded to metro treatments with more healthy looking skin and scales (brighter, more reflective). Red strikes on fins are still there. I will carry on with metro since the problem has not been taken care for a lot of time. I wonder if you had similar observations (more healthy-looking skin + taking longer for red strikes to disappear).

 

[mistergreen]

You don't need the heave duty Kanaplex. An easy to find broad spectrum, gram positive & negative antibiotics will do. It'll be best is you can soak it in food or find antibiotic food since the infection is internal but if the metro fixes the parasite problem, the other infections will probably clear up. It'll save you money too. Antibiotics are expensive.

It'll be best if you don't mix metro and other drugs anyway.

 

[Max]

You don't need the heave duty Kanaplex. An easy to find broad spectrum, gram positive & negative antibiotics will do.

Can you name some brands/products? Is polyguard in the same league?

 

[mistergreen]

Try Tetracycline

and Erythromycin (gram +) is suppose to treat septicemia.

 

[Max]

Try Tetracycline

and Erythromycin (gram +) is suppose to treat septicemia.

Thanks, I will try first with kanaplex since eventually I will get hold of it and it is supposed to treat septimicia as well. If not then I will switch to erythromycin.

 

[mistergreen]

Thanks, I will try first with kanaplex since eventually I will get hold of it and it is supposed to treat septimicia as well. If not then I will switch to erythromycin.

Oh, kanaplex will cure it. It's suppose to cure the toughest infections like columnaris. It's a strong antibiotic. Use it after your rounds of metro. Don't mix meds.