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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone,
I am doing an independent science study for my senior year this year, and am planning to do an experiment based on the coloration of cherry shrimp in a fish vs fish free environment. I plan on breeding each tank out a couple generations, and then removing the fish too see if the offspring of stressed shrimp lose their ability to be colorful, or if they just choose to be drab to blend in. I need at least 40 red cherry shrimp for this experiment, and will pay shipping but I cant pay much more than that. If someone needs proof that I am actually doing this, I can scan a copy of my schedule which says "independent science study" on it.

If anyone would be so generous as to send me some shrimp, I will give off most of the offspring that are born this year on this forum. Now I curse myself for taking down all my shrimp tanks...

Thanks, Neil
EDIT- I dont need 40 from ONE person, I can just split each group up half on each side so they have the same gene pool and not one better sample goes on one side, one worse sample goes on the other. Also, I will be ready for the shrimp in about a week. I am cycling the tank now.
 

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Wow, what a cool idea! Please start a thread when you begin the project. Many, or all of us would be interested in seeing your results! :proud:

Free bump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
For sure!

I have a 55 gallon tank I am going to divide. It was sitting dry in the chemisty room untill I filled it today...and found someone had put soap it there...

Needless to say, I will be rinsing it out about 1000 times tomorrow...and moving it to be RIGHT next to the teachers desk...
 

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Honeycomb Master
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Wow, why would someone put soap in an aquarium?
Some people are just so stupid..
One of my friends had a baby turtle in an aquarium in his college dorm room, and his roommate put alcohol and cigarette buds in the water. Idiot lol.
 

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just because i love science projects and would love to help you, i'd put some things out:

so you are breeding cherries with fish in them, and then you'd take out the fish at some point in time to see any changes?
-i dont think this is a good idea, because you are linking an independent variable (the coloration of the shrimp) with a dependent variable (the offspring of the same sample) which can lead to confounding factors

what you need is a control variable:

a better idea would be to have 2 sample sizes of 40 cherries, and place them into 2 tanks, one with fish (experiment) and one without (control)--now we will definitely know if color is dependent upon stress level presented by fish, and does not happen randomly at chance or naturally over time (go statistics!)
 

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Plus what fish are you using to make sure that their presence is stressing? Use three tanks, one with no fish, one with "shrimp safe fish" (ones that don't see shrimp as a meal maybe micro rasbora) and one with "shrimp unsafe fish" (ones that will eat the occasional shrimp or at least chase them around maybe rams or other dwarf cichlids).

Plus make sure food is constant and that no other food particles are introduced as much shrimp coloration is dependent on food. (see blackberry or malaya shrimp)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
a better idea would be to have 2 sample sizes of 40 cherries, and place them into 2 tanks, one with fish (experiment) and one without (control)--now we will definitely know if color is dependent upon stress level presented by fish, and does not happen randomly at chance or naturally over time (go statistics!)
The 55 gallon is divided...I plan on starting with 20 in each side.I am not sure what fish I am going to use...but definitly shrimp safe fish... maybe threadfin rainbows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Plus what fish are you using to make sure that their presence is stressing? Use three tanks, one with no fish, one with "shrimp safe fish" (ones that don't see shrimp as a meal maybe micro rasbora) and one with "shrimp unsafe fish" (ones that will eat the occasional shrimp or at least chase them around maybe rams or other dwarf cichlids).

Plus make sure food is constant and that no other food particles are introduced as much shrimp coloration is dependent on food. (see blackberry or malaya shrimp)
I am not doing three tanks. Too many would be eaten...finding the balance of fish would take so long that I would have no experiment...And I will feed them the same thing ect...I am quite knowlegable on shrimp allready. I just sold all mine off because I was unable to keep up so many tanks last year.
 

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You may want to get your shrimp all from one source, otherwise you are introducing more variable into the equation for your study. Just a thought...
 

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and just to add in even more confusion. make sure you are randomly selecting cherries, random selection will help create a normalized bell curve so that you would have "identical" sample sizes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You may want to get your shrimp all from one source, otherwise you are introducing more variable into the equation for your study. Just a thought...
It wont matter as long as I split each group 50-50 on both sides of the divider.
 

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It wont matter as long as I split each group 50-50 on both sides of the divider.
Looks like you have already thought of this! I am just getting a colony of cherries going and do not have many yet, otherwise I would send you some, as I am a "poor" college student myself...:icon_bigg
 

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Actually the sourcing will matter. If you use multiple shrimp strains (or rather they're not different strains since they are all RCS, but different bloodlines if you will) you will end up with an inhomogenous distribution of color, confounding what should be your only variable - color.

It's already difficult to get a homogenous sample with living things because of gene expression (obviously), this is why studies with rats, monkeys, etc. use tightly controlled inbred animal models.

So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you actually want to conduct your study scientifically you'd need to standardize your shrimp sample for color (what if some are just duller b/c that's their coloration? Technically red is a non-natural color as well but since you didn't say your experiment was going to make an overarching statement about 'neocaridina stress (as defined by coloration) in response to fish exposure' or something like that I think that one can be ignored).

Therefore if you were using a heterogenous batch, you'd AT LEAST have to come up with a baseline for each breeder's group and then compare them to each other, rather than comparing the whole group. The best way to do it would be to breed them down yourself to a tightly controlled range of coloration (i.e. say you graded them on 1-10, you'd have to have your shrimp being tested all clustered around 5 or 10 or something); and to do this you'd really have to breeding to the point of CRS-type obsessiveness.

Sorry for the ramble and I don't mean to dump on the idea (which I think is a very interesting one) but if you need to do this accurately and precisely because you're presenting it as an independent research project for school then I'd definitely consider those issues.
 
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