want to culture live food - not sure what to start with!

6288 Views 41 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Sharkfood, Nov 25, 2010

Dave-H

Discussion Starter · Nov 8, 2010

Hello all -

I'm hoping to start a culture or two of something tasty for my fish. I'm not sure, however, what would be a good first thing to try. My requirements are that I want something nice and small, because I am mainly hoping to feed a whole bunch of chili rasboras and a few neon tetras. It would also be great to have something so small that my filter feeding shrimp could get involved, too!

I love in Colorado and it's really COLD in the Winter, so I'm not able to do anything outdoors, and I don't think I'd be able to pull off green water production, etc.

I am hoping to culture something in my closet where all my fish stuff is. That closet is typically between 60 and 65 degrees. It's important that there be no smell coming out of the closet, or my wife will clean house

If necessary, I could move into the basement but my basement isn't very comfortable, runs <60 degrees, and is kind of hard to access through a cellar floor/door type entrance.

I am considering going for a daphina culture, using 4 x 1 gallon water bottles as containers. I will probably go for the monia variety as they are smaller and evidently more tolerate of cooler temps. I can't make green water but it seems like there are lots of options such as yeast, etc. that could work. I'll fill the water bottles with used aquarium water.

I'm also considering vinegar eels, but it sounds like these might get a hair stinky

And, maybe grindal worms would be good. Do they smell??

My primary concern after reading for a while is invasive species! I am very nervous about this, especially because I keep hearing about hydra! I'm still not clear on what people do when they discover hydra in their tank (can anyone shed light on this??). Is this is as much of a concern as I think?

Any advice appreciated! Anyone have a good experience to share? thanks

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Eden Marel

· #2 · Nov 8, 2010

How about brine shrimp?

You should have thought about this in Septemner!! Someone was selling a Daphnia starter kit and it came with a jar with lots Daphnia swimmin it in. I had trouble growing green water too, and someone in my thread told me to pee in the water. I found it easier to scoop up fish poop and put it under an incandescent light for 12+ hours to make container of..... green dust algae fail -___-

For the bamboo shirmp just target feed powder spirulina or buy the powder shrimp food such as Mosura Bioplus or Shirakura Chi Ebi, Hikari First Bites could probably work too. Or you can try frozen rotifers/planktons. If you target feed you have the peace of mind knowing it ate something. Just don't blast the food to hard in its face or you might end up scarying it instead which causes it to close its fans until it feels safe again.

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Lance Uppercut

· #3 · Nov 8, 2010

microworms are super easy and small fish dig em

jetajockey

· #4 · Nov 8, 2010

Green water is pretty easily made in the window sill.

Microworms would work fine, but they are definitely tiny. But on the list they are one of the simplest and easiest to culture/maintain/harvest of them all.

I've tried grindal worms in the past and my culture kept getting taken over by some other funky creatures that were jumping around so I just tossed them. If you could get them going well though they'd be a good size for your fish.

vinegar eels are smaller than microworms, I only bother to use them on newborn fry.

Killing hydra is easy, fenbendazole (dog dewormer) knocked them out for me. I don't think its good for any big snails but it never bothered my pest snails, shrimp or fry.

Satirica

· #5 · Nov 8, 2010

White worms -- dead simple, great location, no smell, fish love them.

By Worm Bedding at Wally World -- $5, Really, this is the best way
Put it in a plastic shoebox from Wally World -- $1.50. Coat the plastic shoebox bottom with duct tape because white worms hate light. Moisten the worm bedding with tank water -- this is not easy to do. Get a White Worm Starter from Aquabid or Ebay or Skeeterbytes. They cost $10 - 20. (The $20 will be ready to feed -- the others are ready in a few weeks.) Get an old CD case. So the whole thing costs $16.50 - 26.50.

Dig small hole in center of box, dump in starter. Get a 1" square of white bread, moisten it very lightly with tank water, put it down on the surface of the worm bedding in the center of the box. Place the CD down on top of the bread, press it onto the surface of the bedding and close the box. It should not be air tight.

Every few days check the bread. Replace it if it is moldy or eaten up. The bread and worms will stick to the CD case. Use a Qtip to remove worms from the CD case, rinse in a small amount of tank water, put rinsed worms in tank, watch fish go nuts after they figure out that is food.

You can do the same thing with Grindal worms. Properly kept these will feed fish for life. I also have banana worms for very small fry and vinegar eels.

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Dave-H

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 9, 2010

Whiteworms sure sound good. Are grindal/micro worms similarly easy to culture i.e. not smell, etc? I have small tank residents and lots of fry so I am hoping to keep it small.

I've done some reading and wow, those vinegar eels are really tiny! I'm not sure it's even worth the trouble to culture the, but it sure looks easy. I have heard from a few people that they get stinky, though.

The thing I most like about daphnia is that they will survive well in the tank and swim around for a while until they get eaten.

tuffgong

· #7 · Nov 9, 2010

Grindal Worms are sooooo easy and mine have no odor. I got a starter culture a few months ago from Craigthor and now I've split it up into two separate cultures. My substrate is peat moss in some sandwich sized tupperware containers. All I do is throw some cat food in there and then collect the worms to feed the fish. Sometimes I feed Grindals to the fish every other day. All of my fish go crazy for them. I've even seen Oto's eat them. I raised a couple cory fry with these grindals.

Captivate05

· #8 · Nov 9, 2010

My cultures don't really smell that much, and that's coming from a pregnant women with super smell! I keep Grindals, Mircoworms, Walter worms, and vinegar eels. All of them are in medium sized Glade containers, with small holes punched in the tops, all of them in my bedroom closet. They are really really easy. Makes hatching BBS feel like a PITA!

I've decided daphnia isn't really worth it for me, I give mine frozen daphnia several times a week anyway.

I would raise white worms, but my fish are so small, I'm not sure if they would be able to eat them...

SearunSimpson

· #9 · Nov 9, 2010

Daphnia are so easy its not even funny. It shouldn't even count as an attempt at live food. Get any large container of water (surface area is more important than depth though, keep that in mind).
Fill it with old tank water when you do water changes. Do this until it's full. In the meantime, get an old two liter pop bottle and stuff some lettuce in it and fill with old tank water. Place in windowsill. Obtain starter culture. Add starter culture (acclimatize!). Feed with green water/infusoria made by the lettuce in the pop bottle. Thats like, the most basic way to do it inside. Oh, and top off any evap with old tank water. In the summer, it's even easier: go to the dollar store and get an inflatable kiddie pool. Fill with old tank water, obtain culture, and let it be.

Dave-H

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 9, 2010

SearunSimpson said:
Daphnia are so easy its not even funny. It shouldn't even count as an attempt at live food. Get any large container of water (surface area is more important than depth though, keep that in mind).
Fill it with old tank water when you do water changes. Do this until it's full. In the meantime, get an old two liter pop bottle and stuff some lettuce in it and fill with old tank water. Place in windowsill. Obtain starter culture. Add starter culture (acclimatize!). Feed with green water/infusoria made by the lettuce in the pop bottle. Thats like, the most basic way to do it inside. Oh, and top off any evap with old tank water. In the summer, it's even easier: go to the dollar store and get an inflatable kiddie pool. Fill with old tank water, obtain culture, and let it be.

Can't do anything outside, visible containers, or window sills...

Sharkfood

· #11 · Nov 9, 2010

I feed my Daphnia yeast an liquified peas. I too have had trouble growing green water. I rotted some algae wafers in some old water in the window also, but that stunk pretty bad. The biggest issue using yeast is that it will grow inside the container.

Since I can't grow green water anyway, I started keeping my Daphnia in dechlorinated tap water in which they live and reproduce just fine. YMMV though as I've heard from several sources that tap water is often not suitable to them, and can kill off a culture.

Eden Marel

· #12 · Nov 9, 2010

Well if you are really serious about this why not just buy a 5g tank or X-Large Kritter Keeper? You can add a small sponge filter and a cheap small thermometer. Then raise them in there and use a handy dandy brine shrimp net to catch them little suckers. I kinda want daphnia too now lol. Then just buy an undercabinet light fixture that is longer than the tank and just let it sit on top of the tank.

That way the colony can live long and happy and maybe you can just feed the daphnia POWDERED Spirulina? I mean you might as well buy some, cuz you have Bamboo Shrimp that would love some spirulina.

Maybe I should get some daphnia toooooo, since I have an empty 3g kritter keeper... or I should buy hoards of large crickets for my Praying Mantis....

Dave-H

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 9, 2010

Yea I was thinking that maybe 2 1 gallon critter keepers could be ok, with a single little pump pushing air through 2 little sponge filters. They daphnia don't need much water movement or filtration so this should be perfect.

I'd rather have 2 smaller tanks than one big one, and a 5 gallon might be too big to comfortably fit on the shelf in my closet. With two tanks, I can use them together to ensure that the population doesn't crash, start new cultures, etc. and they can share a light, too!

Sharkfood

· #14 · Nov 9, 2010

They daphnia don't need much water movement or filtration so this should be perfect

I just run an airline in my culture, no filtration. I use a 2.5 gallon glass jar. The food you feed them is very low in protein, so there isn't much ammonia being produced. I change around 75% of the water weekly, but I slack sometimes.

mistergreen

· #15 · Nov 9, 2010

Yeah, water changes are important for the daphnia... Best to use old aquarium water. Make sure the water doesn't have meds or excel in it.. I wiped out daphnia because of that.

Dave-H

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 9, 2010

How often do you change the water, I'm curious?
Also, do they really need much light? I have been reading that people use 24/day light on daphina, but others say that they don't like darkness but aren't really picky about the lighting.

I think I'm going to start with something like this:

1) I will take 4 x 1 gallon water jugs. The cheap plastic kind that you buy drinking water in at the store. They are clear, easy to work with, and dirt cheap (less than a dollar including a gallon of drinking water!) so if this goes well I can replace them as needed.

2) I'll fill each of the tanks with aquarium water.

3) I order a starter culture of moina sp. from somewhere and split it between 2 or 3 of the 1 gallon containers.

4) I'll mix up a liquid food using yeast and spirulina (maybe some other things after a while) and drop x drops into each 1 gallon bottle each day. Since I'll have multiple bottles, I can monitor the growth and get a feel for how to adjust the feeding, etc. for optimal growth and stability.

5) Every (??) days, I'll change the water. Since these water bottles have narrow openings, this might be a little tricky. I think that I could very gently pour half or more of the water out of one of the containers, then just refill it with used aquarium water. I know that the daphnia are fragile, but I'm pretty sure they could survive this if I do it slowly. I could also very easily siphon some water out into a bucket using thin tubing.

6) I have a 54u sieve that would be perfect for harvesting the adult moina, when I am ready. So, if I want to do some feeding I just empty the bottle right through the sieve and then serve lunch!

I'm a little unclear on how often to change the water, etc. but I'm starting to get excited about all of this!

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Eden Marel

· #17 · Nov 9, 2010

They sell D. moina on AB.

EntoCraig

· #18 · Nov 9, 2010

Brine shrimp for sure. I feed most of my fish live or frozen brine shrimp. Easy to make and easy to freeze for later. Baby Brines are great for just about any small mouthed fish.

I also feed live white worms, live meal-worms, and live Vinegar eels, all of which are super easy.

legomaniac89

· #19 · Nov 9, 2010

Whiteworms would be perfect in your cool basement. They don't like high temps and are super easy to maintain.

There's a sticky I helped write in the Fish subforum that you might want to read through when you get the chance: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/82387-live-foods-best-natural-food-fish.html

Dave-H

Discussion Starter · #20 · Nov 12, 2010

My moina culture came today. They are so tiny! I am excited to get them started! I filled a couple of 1 gallon water jugs for them and am waiting for the temperatures to even out, then they go in!

I'm not really clear on how to feed them. I got some plankton food from the place that sold me the culture, and they said it was perfect for moina/daphnia. But, how much to feed?

Is there a rule of thumb like we have for fish with the 'whatever they can eat in x minutes' type rule for daphnia?

thanks!

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