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Vinegar eels culture questions

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6.2K views 9 replies 4 participants last post by  LidijaPN  
#1 ·
Hello everyone,

I ordered a turbatrix aceti (vinegar eels) starter culture from an apparently reputed website in Germany since I live in Europe.
I received a 20 cl bottle. I decided to pour about 5 ml of the starter culture in 3 other bottles that I topped with a mix of 50% vinegar (organic no sulfites) and 50% water. I then dropped few chunks of a bio apple in every bottle. Finally I covered everything with kitchen rolls and a rubber band to allow oxygenation. I then stored the 3 bottles and the starter cultures at room temperature in a closet to protect them from direct sunlight.

It's been 6 days now.
I tried to look carefully at all the bottles (including the starter culture) with a magnifying glass (and even a macro lens), but could not see anything moving.
I just saw something that looked like dead eels (not sure about it could have been particles). There is also a rotten smell in the starter culture bottle, it doesn't smell at all sour or like apple cider would. But the "fresh" bottles do smell vinegary.

I watched quite few videos and read a bit online, but could not find anything regarding a rotten smell.
Do you think it could be a bad batch ? Or should I just wait ?
Should I put more of that stinky starter culture in my 3 new bottles ?
 
#2 ·
That culture sounds very sus, I would not use something that looks dead. Not so much the smell, I mean my microworms don't smell like a field of flowers either. But can you see living things in there??

That aside, can't you literally start your own vinegar eel culture just with vinegar and apple slices? I think it takes a while but they just.... appear?
 
#3 ·
Well about the sudden apparition, it seems it's not really a thing. There is quite few contradictory statements regarding this. I googled around.
Even organic unfiltered unpasteurized apple cider vinegar should be safe for consumption if you leave it for a month. The eggs need to come from somewhere.
I just wonder if what I am seeing are debris or actual eels and if the smell is expected.
I think I am going to wait 3 weeks. If I start to see some animation I'll extract only living ones from any culture and start something clean and fresh from there. If I don't see anything I bleach everything and try to find another culture somewhere it's not an easy thing to attempt in Romania.
Anyone would know where to find starter culture in Europe ?
 
#5 ·
I just wonder if what I am seeing are debris or actual eels and if the smell is expected.
Could you post photos of the cultures you have?

I've never really had a stinky smell with any of mine in a... too many years to count.

Anyone would know where to find starter culture in Europe ?
As @LidijaPN suggests, local/regional groups, clubs and shops are the first place to look. If you're in the country your IP addresses suggest, then you shouldn't have much trouble finding them among fellow hobbyists in larger population centers or near cities.

But I'd also check Facebook groups and ebay (ugh, I know, it's iffy) for sellers in your region.
 
#6 ·
Try micro worms. I got some of both, and the vinegar eels seem to be slow, like much, much slower on the procreation. Or they aren't at all, but I am not ruling out the slow start on them. But like you I ended up with three bottles.

I did no water in one. Also only did a minor amount of water in the other two bottles. So I am experimenting as much as you it would seem. But I also used a paper towel and covered them for oxygen.
 
#7 ·
They're definitely slow, @Aaronious. Can sometimes take several weeks for any sort of noticeable growth.

One thing that's helped my cultures is to use 0.5 liter jars. Anything larger is a waste in my experience. Usually pickle, sauce, peanut butter or something so they can be easily cleaned. Then I create a single hole in the center of the lid and loosely plug the hole with some pieces of a cotton ball I've pulled apart. It's less prone to breaking down when it inevitably gets wet.

Having a large, wide jar is usually a little easier than bottles because it's a lot easier to get your hand down in there when necessary. Easier to target a pipette or dropper to collect the nematodes in a container like this.

My preferred ratio is usually 3 parts vinegar to 1 part RO/DI (or distilled) water. Occasionally 3 parts vinegar to 1.5 parts water. Could just be the brand of vinegar I use but I find it works best if I don't dilute quite it as much as most internet recipes suggest. The cheap kind I prefer from ALDI often has visible mother, which seems to be a good thing for these critters.

I like vinegar eels for tiny (Moira Rose voice) bebes (/MRV) because they tend to remain in the water column somewhat near the surface of the water instead of immediately sinking. But micro worms are better for larger bebes and smaller fish. Vinegar eels can be left alone for weeks/months without worry but micro worms require at least weekly check-ins to make sure nothing is going haywire.
 
#8 ·
So it seems the smell is not normal. And I managed to get a refund.
I've been looking around on local Facebook groups and I may have found something (thanks for the suggestion @LidijaPN and @somewhatshocked).
I am going to bleach everything and start again.
But now I wonder that the only fishes I have are Trigonostigma hengeli (glowlight rasbora), they are middle level feeders and I have plenty of salvinia and frogbit. I wonder if I may not end up with the vinegar eels in the roots and the fish ignoring them. I usually feed them with micro pellets, crushed flakes and baby brine shrimp.
I guess I'll need to experiment...
 
#9 ·
But now I wonder that the only fishes I have are Trigonostigma hengeli (glowlight rasbora), they are middle level feeders and I have plenty of salvinia and frogbit. I wonder if I may not end up with the vinegar eels in the roots and the fish ignoring them.
They'll eat them. Vingear eels will be constantly moving and impossible to miss. Pretty much any fish is going to go after them like a moth to a flame.