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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone,

I've been reading a lot on the forums... here and other places... and it seems there are usually problems with venders arguing in other peoples posts.

What would be the possibility of like making some sort of non-super-self promoting rule? I personally Have been selling stuff on here a ton now but I try not to self promote in others posts over the top. I'll also point people to others as well as when I point people to me or at least I try to.

Is this market just getting too competitive? Am I paranoid?

There was a recent post that sparked this question in my head.

Also, please No "sponsors" posting people that just sell plants here passively or a bit more are more than welcome to though because generally these people are the ones who are in the middle as well.

So Lets not flame and keep this civilized...

But the question is... Should there be some type of rule on this?

-Andrew
 

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I have not noticed much disruption of the balance between criticism and self promotion. perhaps you are more sensitive to this as you try to break your $1,000 sales mark ;) personally, I think a forum becomes less productive when too many rules tie the hands of communication.

this forum has a http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sponsors/ sponsors area they can promote without any feedback. perhaps moderators can have those who self promote too much establish a sponsor thread or risk having their open forum over promotional posts deleted.

if you think a poster is too self promoting, use the
and let the moderators decide what is appropriate for this forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have not noticed much disruption of the balance between criticism and self promotion. perhaps you are more sensitive to this as you try to break your $1,000 sales mark ;) personally, I think a forum becomes less productive when too many rules tie the hands of communication.

this forum has a http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sponsors/ sponsors area they can promote without any feedback. perhaps moderators can have those who self promote too much establish a sponsor thread or risk having their open forum over promotional posts deleted.

if you think a poster is too self promoting, use the
and let the moderators decide what is appropriate for this forum.
I don't think this has to do with "me" but I bet I am paying a lot more attention to how venders promote themselves since personally I'm very self conscious of this and try my best to keep it to a minimum.

I also agree, I haven't seen them use their forum sections much.......:icon_neut

I hadn't thought of that. Maybe I'll use it here and there.

What do mods and others think?

-Andrew
 

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Doesn't like Kool-Aid
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What do mods and others think?
We had a "Vendor Review" section here a few years ago. Do you see it now? :hihi: Have you seen one on APC or Plant Geek or the AGA Forum?

It was way to difficult to moderate and control. There were constant arguments and fights.

Who here remembers the "wrong regulator photo" incident?

Vendor reviews were venomous and vengeful. They were over the top accounts. People were using the section to try to put vendors out of business (and some vendors were using it to try to put each other out of business). It was distasteful and removed from the forum. I remember advocating with a couple of the other mods to keep it, but in hindsight, I am glad it is gone. It was the best move this forum ever made!

We lost a few good members because fighting.

Needless to say, you won't see anything like that around here again.

I have not noticed much disruption of the balance between criticism and self promotion. perhaps you are more sensitive to this as you try to break your $1,000 sales mark
:hihi: :hihi:

I have noticed the same thing too, Joey!

this forum has a http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sponsors/ sponsors area they can promote without any feedback.
We do. That area is for announcements of sales, new merchandise releases or other special offers. That area was open for back and forth discussion at one time, until those areas became the new "Vendor Review" forums. People fought with vendors, and then vendors fought with vendors. The whole thing was a huge mess and EVERYONE grew tired of the garbage. We discussed the situation and Kyle decided on the format we use now. There is peace once again in the kingdom!

perhaps moderators can have those who self promote too much establish a sponsor thread or risk having their open forum over promotional posts deleted.

if you think a poster is too self promoting, use the and let the moderators decide what is appropriate for this forum.
I think that is way too objective. What is an annoying self promotion to me, might be just fine with you. What drives you up the wall, might push me over the edge. Way too objective, and I'd advise against ROPeing all the issues you believe to be self-promoting. ROPe spam, inappropriate language or abusive behavior, not something you may interpret as being too self promoting.

I think a forum becomes less productive when too many rules tie the hands of communication.
See, now I think this forum is productive because we have an established set of fair rules we all obey and that are enforced. Information is topical. Lines of communication (for the most part) are courteous and respectful. No one likes to jump on the forum after a day of work or study to read bickering and fighting...unless you are into bickering and fighting (which was standard in the "Vendor Review" section by the way) . It is a turn off, and people turn off and leave.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #5
We had a "Vendor Review" section here a few years ago. Do you see it now? :hihi: Have you seen one on APC or Plant Geek or the AGA Forum?
Yes I have, I know exactly what has happened there, that must of been before me because I can't ever remember that.

It was way to difficult to moderate and control. There were constant arguments and fights.
It seems there are on other forums as well, see this point too

Who here remembers the "wrong regulator photo" incident?
Can't seem too, probably one of those old TPT issues:sleep: lol, But it was probably before I was here...

Vendor reviews were venomous and vengeful. They were over the top accounts. People were using the section to try to put vendors out of business (and some vendors were using it to try to put each other out of business). It was distasteful and removed from the forum. I remember advocating with a couple of the other mods to keep it, but in hindsight, I am glad it is gone. It was the best move this forum ever made!

We lost a few good members because fighting.

Needless to say, you won't see anything like that around here again.
I think it's good we won't see it here. I've seen this stuff over at APC, the thing I like about having the open forums is I could say ask a vender a question and have an answer for everyone.

But loosing good members is worse that loosing the post in vender section....



:hihi: :hihi:

I have noticed the same thing too, Joey!
Would you agree that this thing comes and goes? I remember a while ago there was a HUGE problem with a few venders people going crazy:icon_neut .

We do. That area is for announcements of sales, new merchandise releases or other special offers. That area was open for back and forth discussion at one time, until those areas became the new "Vendor Review" forums. People fought with vendors, and then vendors fought with vendors. The whole thing was a huge mess and EVERYONE grew tired of the garbage. We discussed the situation and Kyle decided on the format we use now. There is peace once again in the kingdom!
Peace is good! Seems something could be brewing down the road though, and I think you know what I'm hinting at....

I think that is way too objective. What is an annoying self promotion to me, might be just fine with you. What drives you up the wall, might push me over the edge. Way too objective, and I'd advise against ROPeing all the issues you believe to be self-promoting. ROPe spam, inappropriate language or abusive behavior, not something you may interpret as being too self promoting.
Hey mike, I think you mean subjective ;) and yes I agree! Thats one of the reasons I made this topic to see if I was a bit off the rocker so to speak or other people noticed these things as well.

So as that post is saying we probably shouldn't report that type of post?


See, now I think this forum is productive because we have an established set of fair rules we all obey and that are enforced. Information is topical. Lines of communication (for the most part) are courteous and respectful. No one likes to jump on the forum after a day of work or study to read bickering and fighting...unless you are into bickering and fighting (which was standard in the "Vendor Review" section by the way) . It is a turn off, and people turn off and leave.

Mike
I agree.

Also, Gotta love your title:sleep: lol!

What do other people think?

-Andrew
 

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:hihi: The way Mike converses makes me laugh.:hihi: But you know I agree with everything Mike said.;) Very well-said and marvelous, Mike.:proud: Now where's the clapping smiley when I need it?:icon_mrgr
Momotaro said:
See, now I think this forum is productive because we have an established set of fair rules we all obey and that are enforced. Information is topical. Lines of communication (for the most part) are courteous and respectful. No one likes to jump on the forum after a day of work or study to read bickering and fighting...unless you are into bickering and fighting (which was standard in the "Vendor Review" section by the way) . It is a turn off, and people turn off and leave.
So true.:proud: Debates always scare me as most of them then turn into heated arguments.:eek:
 

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I only know of and ever see one vendor of the forums self promote and knock other vendors. Someone mentions how another vendor has a nice product and that vendor jumps right in and lets them have it. So I chose to never buy anything from someone that acts that way.

A vendor feedback forum would be nice, but as Mike says it becomes more of a flame section then anything else. When something goes wrong folks are looking to take there anger out anywhere and do so with little thought as they are irate at that moment. When things go as planned folks are just happy and less likely to let folks know about that experience as well.
 

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Doesn't like Kool-Aid
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I only know of and ever see one vendor of the forums self promote and knock other vendors. Someone mentions how another vendor has a nice product and that vendor jumps right in and lets them have it. So I chose to never buy anything from someone that acts that way.
Best advice so far!

Leave it to a guy from GWAPA! ;)

Mike
 

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Who here remembers the "wrong regulator photo" incident?
I do! that incident made me look like a bad guy because I said some things to you and Kyle I should not have out of anger and frustration over that knucklehead sponsor/ish. Hahaha
My apologies Mike and Kyle.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, would a good answer to this question be that with venders helping to support the forum like anything it ain't perfect and might not ever be? People are people?

-Andrew
 

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Spypet said:
I think a forum becomes less productive when too many rules tie the hands of communication.
See, now I think this forum is productive because we have an established set of fair rules we all obey and that are enforced. Information is topical. Lines of communication (for the most part) are courteous and respectful. No one likes to jump on the forum after a day of work or study to read bickering and fighting...unless you are into bickering and fighting (which was standard in the "Vendor Review" section by the way) . It is a turn off, and people turn off and leave.

Mike
See I think you are both right. Too many rules discourages open discussion whereas not enough allows for fighting. I think we have managed to find a very healthy balance here.

As for Sponsor self promotion I have no problem with it to an extent. A link in your signature is fine but self promotion within a post is not. For example if someone asks a question about a C02 regulator and a sponsor responds "C02 regulators control the flow of C02 so you don't kill your fishies, you should check out mine at www.shamelessplug.com", this is not acceptable.

bluebell said:
The way Mike converses makes me laugh. But you know I agree with everything Mike said. Very well-said and marvelous, Mike. Now where's the clapping smiley when I need it?
I agree. He certainly does make my job easier! ;)
 

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Fish Newb, this whole thread is a form of Self-Promotion. Picking away at other vendors is just going to make YOU look bad:

Picture credits

I know You are Young, but You may want to REthink Your current "Game Plan".....


and it seems there are usually problems with venders arguing in other peoples posts.
Its not real hard to figure out who and what You are talking about, but usually its just one vendor arguing with one or more non-vendors. That person does their own damage to themselves. Are those the foot-steps You want to follow.....?? If You want to "Finger-point": Then point Your finger down and shoot Yourself right in the foot--because that is the path you are traveling....

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Fish Newb, this whole thread is a form of Self-Promotion. Picking away at other vendors is just going to make YOU look bad:

Picture credits

I know You are Young, but You may want to REthink Your current "Game Plan".....




Its not real hard to figure out who and what You are talking about, but usually its just one vendor arguing with one or more non-vendors. That person does their own damage to themselves. Are those the foot-steps You want to follow.....?? If You want to "Finger-point": Then point Your finger down and shoot Yourself right in the foot--because that is the path you are traveling....

Good Luck!
That has NOTHING to do with this, or my "game plan" It is something I've been looking at for a long time and finally decided to ask. I've been sending mosses and posting at killies.com with others and I don't think it's right to rip pictures. Esepcially when all you need to do is ask and the answer will probably be yes. Maybe I posted that at a bad time I'm not sure:icon_neut .

But I'm not trying to pick apart venders because without them a ton of the plants we have today wouldn't be here:icon_neut .

I'm also not trying for self promotion.. maybe it came across wrong and if it did I'm sorry:icon_redf . I wanted to see what other people think because for one reason I don't want to self promote overly and I know people can do it without meaning to.

So I'm sorry if this came across wrong!

-Andrew
 

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I always took a little different viewpoint. I always figured since I am a paying sponsor, that gives me a right to self promotion to a certain extent. It is much more dis-respectfull to the WEB site to openly advertise your business or WEB site if you are not paying to be a sponsor. I do not do that on any WEB site I do not advertise on, (except for my signature which is acceptable on most WEB sites.)

There is also a double standard. Someone who has an adversarial relationship with certain forum members as Bigstick is very obviously stating, have a much harder time being accepted or forgiven than those people who are generally accepted by everyone. For example Rex Grigg has been very openly heavily promoting himself both here and on APC to sell C02 regulators and related supplies. He is not paying for this priviledge, and yet no one ever objects. When I read a very long advertisement written by him in a post in answer to someones question, I feel I should have the same right, particularly as a paying vendor to respond equally, and yet if I do this I am looked at with disdain and contempt.

Bigsticks comments about a vendor or vendors having a reputation of bad mouthing other vendors and this and that really have no relevance to this conversation. That's another whole subject and an example of how the vendor review forum turned ito a flamefest. Bigstick wants to equate his personal feelings about this "vendor" to the issue of self promotion. Thats not the same issue. The subject at hand is where do you draw the line of what is acceptable for self promotion and what crosses the line. It is an interesting question.

For the most part I believe most people are reasonable and able to govern themselves. I've done and said many things I regret, but I have been able to move on past it, while others can't seem to. And yet my business has doubled since last year. I think Andrew is right. People are just people who make mistakes and there will always be some conflict, but for the most part it is never intentional, and is always overblown by some people.
 

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Bigsticks comments about a vendor or vendors having a reputation of bad mouthing other vendors and this and that really have no relevance to this conversation. That's another whole subject and an example of how the vendor review forum turned ito a flamefest. Bigstick wants to equate his personal feelings about this "vendor" to the issue of self promotion. Thats not the same issue. The subject at hand is where do you draw the line of what is acceptable for self promotion and what crosses the line. It is an interesting question.
Why do I get called out after several weeks?! And my comment, yes is my personal opinion, isnt that why the forum is here? The original post was about self promotion by vendors. I stated my opinion and how I felt about the issue. I didnt do any name calling or take any low blows. When a vendor jumps in on a topic about another business saying that there stuff is better or clearly bashing the business is self promotion. And that was my point. I have no further comment nor do I feel like wasting my time arguing
 

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Why after several weeks? Because I just read it and didn't notice a date.. I didn't know there was a time limit on posting. I guess my definition of self promoting is different from yours, and I do not think Andrew was talking about what you brought up, but I could be wrong. I am not seeking an arguement with you either, but from my perspective I think there is a certain amount of hypocricey in what people accept/tolerate from some people and not from others. That was "my point" Savi?
 
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