"Universal Substrate"

4770 Views 54 Replies 18 Participants Last post by MsNemoShrimp, Aug 6, 2012

MsNemoShrimp

Discussion Starter · Jul 26, 2012 (Edited)

If I am going to redo one of my tanks (maybe both) and I am wondering which substrate should I choose for its "versatile" parameters? What I mean is, which one could I alter the easiest by adding in/taking out. For example, if the substrate keeps the water at 6.0 pH, I can add a feeding dish full of crushed coral to raise it to 7.0ish to raise tigers. If I decided to keep taiwan bees for example, I can just remove the crushed coral and add 5.0 pH water to keep the water down around 5.5 pH.

The overall goal is I want a good substrate that I can alter the pH without having to change all the substrate out in the case if I ever decide to change my shrimp stock. Is that even possible?

I have these two to choose from:

NEW ADA Amazonia II

and

Akadama = Line

I have had experiences with: Snowballs, Red/Blue Rili, OEBT, PRL (CRS), PRL (CBS), Painted Fire Red, Fire Yellows & Malawa

Planning to try Taiwan Bees / BTOE in about 5-6 months?

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sayurasem

· #2 · Jul 26, 2012

NeoShrimp said:
If I am going to redo one of my tanks (maybe both) and I am wondering which substrate should I choose for its "versatile" parameters?

I have these two to choose from:

NEW ADA Amazonia II

and

Akadama = Line

My current collection consists of: Snowballs, OEBT, PRL (CRS), PRL (CBS), Painted Fire Red, Fire Yellows & Malawa

Planning to raise Taiwan Bees / K14 / BTOE / Ruby Red / BKK in about 5-6 months?

May I know where do you get your akadama

anywhoo are you planning to mix those shrimps?
Neos/ tiger basically like 7 ph and little higher. And caridina likes mild acidic water. I would house neos and caridinas in different tanks tho

Bananariot

· #3 · Jul 26, 2012

I would use ADA Amazonia, it can drop the pH lower than akadama.

sayurasem

· #4 · Jul 26, 2012

Or even Malaya or Africana. I think they buffer the ph down to 5.5
The only difference with Amazonia is Africana and Malaya has less nutrients... Which not needed for shrimp only tank.

acitydweller

· #5 · Jul 26, 2012

In general terms, universal means it could be related to, extending to, or affecting the entire world or all within the world. The substrate you listed would only be applicable to creatures who require an acidic environment for survival.

By definition, any inert substrate would be "universal" and would range between fine lava rock to clown puke.

Tibees require low PH for survival. Universal substrate could work if your water source is at 6.0 or below which would require no buffering.

If you are considering tibees, neocaridinas would not do well sharing a tank, but you know this already.

It's good to see you graduating from Rilis and advancing forward into new challenging species.

Good luck My!

Bananariot

· #6 · Jul 26, 2012

Well new Tibees are pretty stable at 6.5 from what I heard so either substrate would work. However if I were to own Tibees I'd stay on the safe side and aim for ph of 6

Kunsthure

· #7 · Jul 26, 2012

What are K14?

-Lisa

somewhatshocked

· #8 · Jul 26, 2012

Here's a good look at what K14 shrimp are. Essentially a German grading scale.

idex

· #9 · Jul 26, 2012

Use ADA Africana

speedie408

· #10 · Jul 26, 2012

If I had to choose I'd choose Akadama. If I had a choice, I'd go with Amazonia "new". I've got my Taiwans in their newly set up AS "new" tank for about 3 months now and they've started breeding for me. Very stable, much more than my Akadama tanks. I didn't pick ASII because I've had bad luck with it in the past... just my experiences, nothing more.

GeToChKn

· #11 · Jul 26, 2012

If I had to choose, I would use either.

or

But you guys can't get that soil there. It buffers pH down to around 5 which is great TB param's.

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MsNemoShrimp

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 26, 2012

Sorry for the confusion. What I am trying to achieve is clarified in the OP. Not even sure that is even possible or recommended.

If not, out of this collection, which one should I try first based on my experience so far?

Taiwan Bees / K14 / BTOE / Ruby Red / BKK

GeToChKn

· #13 · Jul 26, 2012

NeoShrimp said:
Sorry for the confusion. What I am trying to achieve is clarified in the OP. Not even sure that is even possible or recommended.

If not, out of this collection, which one should I try first based on my experience so far?

Taiwan Bees / K14 / BTOE / Ruby Red / BKK

Using a buffering soil and crushed coral is going to fight back and forth and your pH is going to jump around as it goes. You mention just adding a 5pH water if need be, how are you going to get that?

Taiwan Bees and Ruby Red and BKK are the same shrimp, K14 are just crystals. BTOE vary on the params and it comes down to what they were bred and kept in.

Really, you're better off choosing a substrate that is going to buffer for you for the params you want and stick with it. Trying to take a tank with a substrate that is buffering down to 5pH and raise it to 7pH because you want to switch to tigers all of a sudden is just asking for the water to not stay very stable. Active substrates also absorb gh/kh as well, so then you'd be battling those along with pH.,

moosenart

· #14 · Jul 26, 2012

Kunsthure said:
What are K14?

-Lisa

The "K" in K14 is the German grading scale. K2 is like a C grade, K6 ss, K14 SSS+ mosura crown

MsNemoShrimp

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jul 26, 2012

GeToChKn said:
Using a buffering soil and crushed coral is going to fight back and forth and your pH is going to jump around as it goes. You mention just adding a 5pH water if need be, how are you going to get that?

Taiwan Bees and Ruby Red and BKK are the same shrimp, K14 are just crystals. BTOE vary on the params and it comes down to what they were bred and kept in.

Really, you're better off choosing a substrate that is going to buffer for you for the params you want and stick with it. Trying to take a tank with a substrate that is buffering down to 5pH and raise it to 7pH because you want to switch to tigers all of a sudden is just asking for the water to not stay very stable. Active substrates also absorb gh/kh as well, so then you'd be battling those along with pH.,

Thanks for the clarification. I will experiment this on my 8 gallon tank first with K14's and Akadama = Line

I think if I can breed K14 and PRL very successfully, my next stop will be Taiwan Bees :hihi:

speedie408

· #16 · Jul 26, 2012

Kunsthure said:
What are K14?

-Lisa

Looky here Lisa

http://www.speedieaquatics.com/german-k14/

I've been keeping this breed for a while now. I have a few offspring from keeping them as well. These shrimp are bred for their headgear and their ability to breed 98% true, unlike other CRS. That means they'll pop out lots more K14 babies for you if bred together and not mixed with other CRS. That's what makes them K14.

_______________________________________

My,

Play a little. Experiment.

In the shrimp world everyone has their own way of doing things. There is no one set way of doing things is what I'm saying. What works for me, may not work for you, vise verse. There's just too many variables involved.

With every success there had to be failure involved. That's how we learn to be great at what we do, at least some of us.

Nick

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ohbaby714

· #17 · Jul 26, 2012

Get some TBs My

They are super sexy. Even a few in the tank, they really do stand out.

plamski

· #18 · Jul 27, 2012

I bought 10 K14 5 months ago .Now I have 7 left.2male and 5 females. They don’t want to breed no matter what water parameters, food or supplement I'm using. BTOE are breeding for me in very low rate
Red tigers and tangerine ones are doing just fine. TB’s are in ADA Malaya .Ph 6 TDS 150 and they are breeding OK.I have 2 berried BB now. Hopefully I’ll be able to raise them.
You can try with Taiwan bees first if you dont have luck you can always raise PH and try with BTOE or K14.
Go to shrimpnow forum and read articles there.You will find good info.You have to be ready for UGF filtration,purigen,RO water,Canister filters etc.

sayurasem

· #19 · Jul 27, 2012

speedie408 said:
If I had to choose I'd choose Akadama. If I had a choice, I'd go with Amazonia "new". I've got my Taiwans in their newly set up AS "new" tank for about 3 months now and they've started breeding for me. Very stable, much more than my Akadama tanks. I didn't pick ASII because I've had bad luck with it in the past... just my experiences, nothing more.

I don't get it. If I had to choose akadama... If I had a choice amazonia?

plus aren't amazonia II or Amazonia I is discontinued?

speedie408

· #20 · Jul 27, 2012

sayurasem said:
I don't get it. If I had to choose akadama... If I had a choice amazonia?

plus aren't amazonia II or Amazonia I is discontinued?

Meaning, I would not pick any of those options My listed if I had a choice. :biggrin:

Amazonia II is discontinued, along with Amazonia I. Some folks still have old bags stashed up somewhere in their basement/closet. I personally like the "new" formulated AS that ADA is selling right now much better than the old ASI/ASII.

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