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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
'ello all! For a long time I have been using prime as my water conditioner. One ml of prime is sufficient to dechlorinate ten gallons, so I had been diluting it in 9 parts tap to every 1 part prime to make it easier to use the prime efficiently. However, it has come to my attention that any error with this could result in a trace amount of chlorine not being dechlorinated...could such a trace amount sterilize fish? If so, it would explain why I have yet to succeed in breeding any of my fish...even my swamp guppies :(
 

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I too have used prime for a while ,but add enough at water changes to treat the volume of water in the tank, rather than how much I might actually remove..
Seachem say's it can be used at twice strength, but then this would not constitute efficient use I guess.
I normally change 50% of water each week in my tanks but treat with enough prime for total volume, and I wish my guppies WOULD go sterile for a while.
 

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'ello all! For a long time I have been using prime as my water conditioner. One ml of prime is sufficient to dechlorinate ten gallons, so I had been diluting it in 9 parts tap to every 1 part prime to make it easier to use the prime efficiently. However, it has come to my attention that any error with this could result in a trace amount of chlorine not being dechlorinated...could such a trace amount sterilize fish? If so, it would explain why I have yet to succeed in breeding any of my fish...even my swamp guppies :(

I'm not entirely sure; but really doubt the idea of chlorine being able to sterilize fish. If so you might see it suggested for people who have fish that like to breed but have no intention of raising fry. Like african cichlid tanks. The only thing I normally see mentioned in regard to chlorine is burning of the gills.
 

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I don't believe this to be the case. If you change 25% or less it really isn't necassary to dechlorinate at all. What type of fish are you trying to breed?
 

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Trace amounts of chlorine is harmless. You can change 10% of straight tap water, untreated, into an aquarium with no problems.
 

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I don't believe this to be the case. If you change 25% or less it really isn't necassary to dechlorinate at all. What type of fish are you trying to breed?
Trace amounts of chlorine is harmless. You can change 10% of straight tap water, untreated, into an aquarium with no problems.
Wow you guys are risk takers! I wouldn't add in any new tap water without a dechlor. Too many horror stories of how local water companies up the chlorine or chloramine to combat some sudden problem.
 

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Children Boogie
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Wow you guys are risk takers! I wouldn't add in any new tap water without a dechlor. Too many horror stories of how local water companies up the chlorine or chloramine to combat some sudden problem.
If changing 10% and it kills your fish, that amount of chlorine will kill you too!

kidding aside, I would do it to my fish tank but wouldn't do it for the shrimps and crays.
 

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I've seen people use tap water and not dechlorinate. The chlorine will burn the fish's gills (the more damage the less efficient gill function will be), but won't make them infertile. It may harm some bacteria, but with biofilm and fish's slime coating, no major harm should be caused at small trace amount of chlorine (besides gill damage which fish can tolerate a fair amount of). Chlorine will gas off within 24 hours or so (depending on water surface area, temps, etc).
 

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I top off with no more than 10% of the tank volume of tap water with no dechlor.
More than 10%, or a water change (always more than 10%) I use dechlor.

I am rather casual about how I measure it out.
10% under is not a problem.
Double is not a problem (except as noted, a problem of waste).
Between these two values is a wide range.

I do use an eyedropper or syringe to measure it out, so I am probably a lot closer to the proper dose.
 

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The maximum allowable chlorine level in tap water is 4 ppm. Dilluted further in tank water it is unlikeky to injure your fish or biological filter during a routine water change. That said I do use dechlorinator because they also fortify the water with beneficial minerals and I generally do 50% water changes. I just think most people worry about it unnecessarily.
Now if you are having trouble breeding your live bearers it could be several things. The first thing I would try is conditioning them with a food with 50% protien. Your water could also be too cold or too warm. Some hardwater species won't breed well if the water is too soft.
 

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I think more fish are sterilised by the copper and other parasite treatments commonly done at the larger wholesalers.
 

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Yeah it's known that Copper toxicity can cause reproductive harm (yes, as far as rendering infertile). Especially the more toxic forms.
Zinc and Nickle toxicity as well.
Formalin/Formaldehyde is also a known carcinogen (causes cancer! in Humans and in fish!) and does cause reproductive harm.
Malachite Green (yes I know it's not actual Copper) also causes reproductive harm. Another reason I despise common Formalin/Malachite Green ich med combos.
Methylene Blue also causes reproductive harm.

Wonder why I am always cautious with "medicines" and MUCH prefer using safer alternatives????

Though regarding Nordic's comment on wholesalers treating fish, I am not so sure many use Copper to treat, I think Methylene Blue or Formalin/Malachite Green are more often used. I don't think most are even treated at all?

Regarding anti-parasitic meds, Praziquantel does not cause reproductive harm, is not cancerous and has very low toxicity to fish, animals and humans.
Metronidazole has some notable negative reproductive effects, but that is when used well above therapeutic levels to become toxic, then again I am not sure if the reproductive effects are permanent or not.


But to comment on the OP's unsuccessful breeding, I don't think it's a result of chemical toxicity harm nor chlorine "sterilizing".
I am sure you have tried getting the water parameters correct for them. Maybe try more spawning triggers and condition them more. Doesn't hurt to make the physical environment/tank set up more biotope-ish as well.
Have the fish at least been showing spawning activity?
As far as I know, if reproductive harm were suspected, fish would still spawn, but eggs would be unfertilized.



EDIT: ehh, just threw together some links on toxicity/reproductive harm. There is more info out there though.
Formalin http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203331/
Malachite Green http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22849548
Methylene http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2493404
Prazi http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2488999
Metro http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15125692


And oh yeah, I have read into effects of Chlorine and Chloramines in our tap water and they are known to cause Cancer and do cause reproductive harm among humans (not sure about effects on fish, but I would believe the same does indeed apply to them).
It's the Disinfection By-Products (DPBs) they create that are the issue. Though Chloramines do create much less than Chlorine does. Although I am not sure if when the Chloramines bond is broken by a dechlorinator like Prime, if the ammonia is then free to create more DPBs (I do not know how fast DPBs are created, or if Prime instantaneously dechlorinates chlorine before it can create DPBs). So on the topic of fish becoming infertile by chlorine, I suppose it's possible, although in real world "practice", I've seen people use chlorinated tap water without dechlorinating for years and still had very successful breeding (especially with livebearers). I myself have even done a water change or two forgetting to add dechlor at all (couple other times not dechlorinating until remembering several hours later) and still have had all the same fish breeding just fine. So despite the possibility, I doubt chlorine is causing infertility in your fish.

If they aren't even showing interest in spawning, there is most likely some other reason.
 

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I love watching videos of large fish operations. They almost all have a conveyor system where fish are first treated for harboured vectors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
They're showing spawning behavior...however;
- I never definitely found as much as a single killifish egg or fry
- The swamp guppies produced a few broods the first few months and then stopped. They weren't eating the fry then...

I did have to dose some metradanizole to combat a hydra infestation in almost all the tanks, but my killifish were not breeding long before that.
 

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[QUOTE=Grah the great;9011305- One ml of prime is sufficient to dechlorinate ten gallons, so I had been diluting it in 9 parts tap to every 1 part prime

I'm missed something? Is the math correct here? Does one ML per ten GALLON come out to 9 to 1? I see one Ml being closer to 3785.
Miss-spoke, math wrong or do I miss the issue?

I don't see the chlorine as the main problem though, in either case.
 

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I think he misspoke. If was mixing 1 gallon of Prime to 9 gallons of water he would be Seachem's favirite person though. I think he was using 1 ml per 9 gallons.
 
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