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swords dont look to good

1194 Views 14 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  pfertz
i baught some amazon swords from drfosternsmith. been about a week since i had them they dont look perfect. there green but not dark green. the look like the leaves are kind of wavey and skeletony. (i see all th elines that look like veins going accross the whole leaf top to bottem. also they are getting little brown holes in them. at first i thought they were doing good because they would get all bubbles on the leaves an di was tould that means there progating or something like that. i dont think it could be my water even with all my anubias died off and my java fern leaves turn black and geting black dots all over them i switched up my lighting and everything heres what i do to my tank:

2 canisters of co2 (the nutrafin bubble system and bottle) 1 tsp fleishmanns yeast and sugar.

pfers products:micros and nitrogen twice-3 times a week and i follow instructions per gallon liek it says they gave me 4 root tabs with them

catalina made me a light they made a t5 h0 light 4 lights 2 10k 2 6.5k i leave light on for any were from 10-12 hours a day usually its 12.

i also haveanarchis the leaves are light green some a light brown but they dont look like there dying alot of stems are still looking good but no roots.

anyone have any idea what could be wrong i have heard emersed swords dont do good but i dont no if thats what foster and smith sells.

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What is the tank size? That is a lot of light for a long time for most common tank sizes.
36 gallon the guy at catalina said to keep it on for 12 hours
What's your ph? I'm guessing since you're using high light and two bottles of diy co2 without baking soda that it's kind of all over the place, which will extend the plants' adjustment phase.

I'm also curious why you're only dosing N and micros? Potassium (k), is the most important macro nutrient.
the peopel at pferts said i only needed root tabs micros and nitrogen i asked about the macros and he said i dont need them because of my tank and that macros would be a waiste of my money since my plants dont need macros apperently i thought it was hard to believe but he said magnesium is usally does into tank at a good amount by fish waste and that the macros bottle was only for hi tech hard to keep plants and swords and crypts.

as for my ph its perfect 7.0-7.5
All plants need macros and micros. It is the AMOUNT they need that varies. Just Like I told you last week, the leaves that came on your plants will either just stay as is or die. They were grown out of water in a humid atmosphere to grow them fast.

That is a TON of light on for too much. Way too much and way too long.
It sounds like you got a lot of bad advice doled out to you by merchants.

4 T5HO bulbs is a lot of light. You'll need good CO2 and lots of ferts to get the benfits of that much light. Algae loves high light like that and won't be phased by lack of ferts.

The swords I've tried had emersed leaves, and they didn't even start to rot for weeks. New leaves grew out of the center of the rosette way before I saw any discoloration on the original leaves.

If you can see the internal structure of the new leaves and they appear transparent in spots, that's a good indicator that they are getting way more light, and way less CO2 than necessary. I don't know if you can really divine any knowledge from the way the old leaves rot (Or don't. I had a huge red rubin that never dropped its oval emersed leaves).
well so far there not changing colors right now and th eanarchis i got tips are starting to turn light green and th estems look liek there starting to grow taller. is sweet aquatics a good place to buy plants? i just posted a order there early this week. and with the light i paid $190 for it and from what i was reading up on 10 k lights were the best to get. and i red that catalina was supposed to be the best and helpful and guy i talked to seemed to know what he was talking about and reviews i ready were all good about them ot 1 bad one. so any idea how long that light should be on for? my java ferns i have leaves are still kind of turning black but some of them look like there getting that nice green color and the bunch java ferns i have are starting to grow little plants on the leaves so i figured something im doing must be right. the ferns are planted in the gravel so that probably dont help and could be why the leaves are getting black and black dotss and holes in leaves. i kind of gave up of my anuibias the lady at sweet aquatics said co2 kills anubias htey apperently dont like co2 at all. also the one wenditi red crypt i have is still doing farely well little light in color not green was tould with enough light there supposed to turn like a dark red color. when i first got it th estem parts were only red and leaves were a touch on green side and they started changing color. kind of makes me mad now that the peopel at pferts tould me macros would be a waiste of my money when the whole time i read up the npk was the most important th eguy tould me to get just nitrogen that aperently the fish waiste puts enough magnesium in the water adn potassium wouldnt be needed unless my tank was heavily planted so i didnt feel like argueeing with everything i been reading i dont like pissing off sellers or anyone period when u do that i belive u will get ripped off. anyway i know i type alot but just trying to get all bases covered. o yea and since i got th enew light not sure if its just because of th ebright light or what but th ecolor in my rainbows have really came out and look alot nicer and so far i have no algea growing wich i assume is a good thing
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The person from pfertz doesn't seem to have much knowledge of planted tanks. There's normally a lot of nitrogen and phosphorous from fish food and waste, not magnesium. Potassium is essential for photosynthesis and I don't believe it's contained in high enough concentrations in either fish waste or food.

Also, anubias are fine with co2. I've found that they can suffer if they're exposed to direct lighting that's as high as the lighting on your tank.
hmm okay think i migh tjust grab a bottle of macros i baught from pferts because its all over this site and read god things about them
I must interject here, as I take extreme exception to what is being said. The conversations I have had with bigT have been grossly misquoted. The reason that I recommended Nitrogen, Micros and root tabs (our Medium Tech + package) was based on the fact that Nitrogen, Micronutrients, AND POTASSIUM are all included in this package, and this was based on the stats of the tank, which bigT provided. Our nitrogen product contains as much potassium as some other potassium-only products, and this information has been relayed as such. I also informed him that the only thing missing from the package was phosphorus, which was likely covered by the fish waste present in the tank.

I never have, and never would, suggest that magnesium would be supplied by fish food and/or waste - that is just silly. The conversation regarding magnesium was in regards to water hardness, and the fact that magnesium and calcium are usually present in tap water, unless the area has naturally soft water.

I'm not sure where all of this confusion lies, as our correspondence has been very clear, although you wouldn't know this based on what has been said. I pride myself VERY highly on providing friendly, accurate, and KNOWLEDGEABLE information with every customer support email - there are many, many people that can attest to this. Unfortunately, it seems something has been lost in the translation here :/

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That sounds like the most reasonable explanation. It was understandable that the poster (benignly and unknowingly) misconstrued your conversation, given that the N product is balanced with K.
I'm not sure that fish poop is a good enough source of phosphorous for any but low light tanks. Since excess phosphorous does no harm I think it is always a good idea to be dosing it. The lack of phosphorous can bring plant growth to a virtual halt, no matter how much of the other nutrients are present.
How high above the tank is that fixture? If it's within a few inches of the top then 12 hours with that amount of lighting and essentially DIY CO2 is too long.

I would do some searching on this board to see what kind of photo-period and what # of HO bulbs others on the site are using on their tanks of similar size.

I also have a 36 and I use a 2 bulb T5NO fixture directly on top with a 12hr duration (considering dropping to 11 though). The reflector design in my Coralife fixture is not nearly as efficient as that of your Catalina so I'd roughly guestimate that my 2 bulbs are equal to one of yours. That should provide some perspective.

I assume you can control the bulbs indepedently (or at least each pair). This will give you the flexibility to experiment with some different things to see what works best for you. (i.e. the possibility of running 1 bulb (or pair) for a few hours, both for a couple, and back down to 1 for a few hours)
I'm not sure that fish poop is a good enough source of phosphorous for any but low light tanks. Since excess phosphorous does no harm I think it is always a good idea to be dosing it. The lack of phosphorous can bring plant growth to a virtual halt, no matter how much of the other nutrients are present.
Hoppy, I definitely agree with you on this point. However, in my opinion, low light tanks that have a large fish load, and where the majority of plants are root feeders (and the plants are fed as such), then the need for water-column phosphorus can be low enough that it isn't necessary to add (although it doesn't hurt!).

It was my understanding that this was going to be a low-light tank, with primarily sword plants, mosses and anubias, and the recommendation was made based on these factors. I could have easily recommended a more expensive package, but based on the information I was given, I felt that the Medium Tech + package was the correct choice for the application, as well as the cheaper option.

I think the main issue with this tank (aside from communication errors) is that he is experiencing emersed-growth die-off, but is not experienced enough with planted tanks to understand that this is normal. But that's okay, this is something you learn at some point when getting into planted tanks, and this forum is a great resource full of patient & helpful people that can get ANY n00b to pimp status in no time. :proud:

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