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Hi all,

I'm curious to hear what your survival rate of nano fish is when introduced to your tank. Let's say, after 2 weeks?

I feel like my survival rate after 2 weeks is around 50%, and that's generous. I've gotten into the habit of buying around double the amount of fish I would actually like to have. And even then, I struggle to keep 4 out of 8 originals, more than a few months.

What are your stats? Any pointers on getting a group of nano fish off to a good healthy start? Would love to hear more peoples experiences.
 

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Yup. pretty much what you said. usually most will die or most will survive. I used to think it was more or less a 50% survival rate but it's much more of a crap shoot.

I have much better rates of survival now, more like 80-100%(my favorite store has a deal on FW fish, buy 5 get 1 free of the same type, and I almost always get 6, usually end up with 5 or 6 after a month). I think this is due to quarantines that I do now for new fish. It's not anything too crazy, but i do think that allowing them to get used to my water for a week or two on their own is best. I should add that this is just for their comfort, my QT is generally 3 weeks or longer. But I then introduce them to their tank, which I have zero species only tanks so they always have to get used to some new friends. This way their stressors are split up more. They also need to get used to new foods, and if they don't realize it's food right away may get out competed for a few days... weakening them and again, adding to the likelihood of their demise.

Usually, I feel they succumb to ich, which is not a cause, it's a symptom or a secondary issue. The first being stress in my opinion. They are so small, a little stress can go a long way. At least this is my theory from my experiences.
 

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I would like to do this, but I sadly do not have space for a quarantine tank. Can nano fish be quarantined in an unfiltered jar of tank water? I'm assuming they need oxygenation somehow for a week long quarantine?
you are 100% correct. they will need a cycled environment. Trying to think of something that may help. Maybe since you're doing nano fish you can get a Hang on Tank Breeder box? I'll link one.

Amazon.com : ISTA IF-648 Hang-On Separation Breeder Box : Pet Supplies

That is the one that I use. I have two, I use them for all kinds of things. Used one as a HOB refugium filter for about a year even. These canhave three compartments or one larger one that is probably about 1/3 gallon. Best part, no cycling, just using your already cycled tank. I recommend keeping up the flow in these boxes though, especially for hatching eggs and fry.

you could purchase a small air pump for $10 and a sponge filter, also $10 or less, a 5 or 10g tank for $20 or so, they just had a 50% off sale at some of the box stores on these tanks. They do it a few times a year. Or a used tank. and then you just have to let that sponge soak up bacteria in another tank for a few weeks, and boom, you have a tank you can break down and set up quickly. Personally I still feed lightly and do water changes often when i do it this way. Now my QT tanks are always full. if not in the process of a QT something else moves in for awhile. so I always have cycled places to put fish. It's a blessing and a curse, as I don't have to wait to buy fish... but then I have to figure out how to juggle the tanks...
 

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Any pointers on getting a group of nano fish off to a good healthy start?
Find a better supplier. Really. A good supplier is everything in this hobby. And quarantine (keep a sponge filter going somewhere so you can pop it into a tank for QT when needed) every critter you get for several weeks to a month - maybe longer if necessary. One week isn't a quarantine. You need to keep new livestock separated long enough to give any potential illnesses and infections to become apparent. Many illness/disease/parasite lifecycles take far longer than a week to show up.

I can count on one hand the number of fish I've lost from stress or being unhealthy from a supplier in more than 20 years. I've lost shrimp like that because people tend to be more unscrupulous when it comes to shrimping.

Losing 50% of stock within a month of receiving fish is wild to me. Are you buying from online suppliers? Locals?
 

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Losing 50% of stock within a month of receiving fish is wild to me. Are you buying from online suppliers? Locals?
He was talking about nano fish in particular. I think these little guys are caused more issues or are just so small that stress causes them bigger troubles than other fish in the hobby. I don't know that this was the OP's original claim or intent, but I think this is what was happening to them. At least from my experience with nano fish vs regular small to medium fish (2"+ is what I'm thinking). It doesn't help that nanos tend to be tetras and things, so they are more skittish. Sparkling gourami and Scarelet Badis for example seemed to take really well to a new enviornment. Though they are different in mind set to my thinking, like a mouse(tetra/rasbora types) and a cat (Scarlets/Sparkling types). And I have picked up these guys a few times and have seen similar things each time. This isn't to say they don't disappear on me from time to time. But I do think they handle new things and stress differently.


Overall, I agree with you @somewhatshocked said, especially that I could be completely wrong and you are just getting bad stock from wherever you're buying them, @Junglist . But hopefully you can find a little room to set one up and put some of this info to use.
 

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I lost 2 out of 16 Rummynose Tetras in quarantine. No idea why; no indicators of disease, ever.

The remaining fish are now fully grown, with amazingly bright red noses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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He was talking about nano fish in particular.
I don't keep anything but tiny fish these days. Haven't actively purchased much of anything (with a few exceptions) larger than an Endler in a dozen years. I don't find tiny fish to be any more susceptible to disease, illness or stress than any other, larger fish. Would say I've probably ordered fish from other forum members more than a hundred times the past 20 years. Plus twice as many orders from suppliers and smaller sellers like Rachel O'Leary. Which is why I think it comes down to having a good, reliable supplier who takes animal health seriously. Preferably trustworthy hobbyists who sell/share livestock above all others, of course, but that's not always an option.

Unfortunately, some of the more popular web retailers lately are no better than big box chains were when it comes to health and good practices. Some are worse. There's one based in Indiana that I see negative reviews about nearly every day. It's even worse when it comes to shrimp. It's so bad at the moment that I wish we permitted blatant vendor reviews. It's as if the Indiana retailer doesn't even put the livestock they receive into a tank prior to shipping them to buyers - almost like they go from bag to bag.

Tetra disease is crazy beast, though. A scary thing to experience even if you've been at it your entire life.
 

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Just netting and bagging tiny fish like chili rasboras can cause injuries that aren't noticeable at first but can lead to death somewhere down the line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Are you buying from online suppliers? Locals?
Thank you for the info. I get my stock from one specific LFS. I'm hesitant to blame them, as their tanks are immaculate, they have an outstanding reputation, and staff seems knowledgeable.

What is the function of a quarantine for new fish? I understand it decreases stress, but the only difference between a quarantine tank and the regular tank is no hardscape, plants, or other species. How does quarantine help increase survival rates of newly added fish?
 

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I get my stock from one specific LFS. I'm hesitant to blame them, as their tanks are immaculate, they have an outstanding reputation, and staff seems knowledgeable.
Never a good idea to assume a store is doing something unless you see it yourself. Especially if you're losing up to 50% of fish you buy. Most (there are exceptions) aren't quarantining, aren't making an effort to monitor for potential illness, aren't always treating for minor illnesses when they see them, take few preventive measures. Sales volume means survival for a business like that and they have to move stock quickly.

They may have nice-looking tanks, have otherwise good practices and be well-meaning. But business is business and corners get cut with the best of local shops. Just the nature of the beast.

What is the function of a quarantine for new fish? I understand it decreases stress, but the only difference between a quarantine tank and the regular tank is no hardscape, plants, or other species. How does quarantine help increase survival rates of newly added fish?
Health. The same reason you'd quarantine yourself to prevent potential shedding of a virus you don't know you have and unintentionally infecting another person. The function of a quarantine for any animal you get: ensure health. If you're losing 50% of fish in less than a month? You probably could have treated for illnesses (preventive or active) and figured things out relatively quickly in a quarantine setup. Ignore stress for the most part when it comes to quarantine. It's relatively easy to make livestock feel comfortable and that will vary among species. But once fish calm down, their immune systems adjust, they adapt to new food (you get to closely monitor digestion and waste), new conditions and many illnesses can become apparent that may otherwise be tough to spot among plants and hardscape.

A quarantine tank ideally makes it easier to closely observe livestock to monitor for behavior and illness. That's not easy to do in an aquascaped system for myriad reasons, some of which I mentioned above. Not something to gloss over - especially if you plan to put them in an established system. Being able to quickly treat with meds alone increases the likelihood of survival. Knowing how a fish eats and poops - something that isn't always apparent with substrate, hardscape, etc - is a bigger deal than most would think. Particularly when it comes to parasites among farmed fish, as some can survive outside the fish and even thrive in a tank. Particularly when it comes to getting wild-caught fish to adjust to dry or frozen food - especially tiny hunters like Boraras or similar. Monitoring closely for injury without the obstacle of hardscape, substrate, plants and such is beyond helpful.

Many diseases are difficult to treat in a well-established, scaped tank because you may have to tear them down in order to successfully eradicate whatever the problem happens be. In a quarantine system? Dump it, clean it, reuse it when necessary. Less risk of ruining things for other livestock down the road (like invertebrates), as well. Gotta treat with copper in quarantine? Fine. Won't end up nuking any shrimp you add a year down the road or if you reuse the tank or components later on. Gotta de-worm? No risk of killing off your snails.

Many illnesses don't become apparent for 4-6 weeks and just dumping fish into your display tank without taking preventive measures (especially after losing so many, as you unfortunately have) is just begging for trouble. A quarantine setup doesn't have to be permanent or even an aquarium. Can be as simple as a Rubbermaid tote or bucket that allows easy access. Ideally you'll use an aquarium of some sort or something that's clear, though. I keep spare sponge filters running on my main tanks so I always have a sponge I can use for a quarantine. Just clean it when done and pop it into storage until I need to replace a sponge I'm using for quarantine. The tank I use the most for quarantining goes on a shelf when not in use and I use it to store tank extras - filter media, food, tools, fertilizer, meds, fake plants for QT, that kind of stuff.

As someone who reads hundreds of thousands of posts per year and tens of thousands from newcomers to the hobby? There's one thing that is abundantly clear when illness is involved: most haven't quarantined anything and they have a mess on their hands that could have been easily prevented. Even among longterm hobbyists. Pretty much every "OMG what's wrong with my fish?!" post goes the same way.
 

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Hi all,

I'm curious to hear what your survival rate of nano fish is when introduced to your tank. Let's say, after 2 weeks?

I feel like my survival rate after 2 weeks is around 50%, and that's generous. I've gotten into the habit of buying around double the amount of fish I would actually like to have. And even then, I struggle to keep 4 out of 8 originals, more than a few months.

What are your stats? Any pointers on getting a group of nano fish off to a good healthy start? Would love to hear more peoples experiences.
First may I ask what specific species are your referring to. Survival rates of different species vary.

Now my experience as a past aquatic store owner on survival rates. For me the biggest variables was in relations to the lenght of time they were in transportation. For an example I would get my order in on Thursday to a supplier on Bangkok and have the fish at my airport on Monday. This included a stop in California where a middleman did a water change before routing them to me. On a normal run I would have an initial 5 to 10% arrive dead but the final number received was about 75% of the original order.
Once I got them I put them in holding tanks for 2 days. When I first started doing this I had about 30% of the tanks that got hit with fungus infections and eventually this tanks gave me 50%+ losses. Later I started treating 100% of the incoming fish with copper. The treating with copper for 2 days brought losses down to under 5%.
 

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My first nano tank had lots of plants started, and after cycling I stocked it with ember tetras. As a first-timer, I expected to lose a few, and I did. Cynically, I would buy one more than I wanted, but after a few months there was no need to restock anymore. When I built one for a local school, a seven gallon with plant cuttings brought over from my home tanks, I stocked it with a betta and 11 embers (I bought and paid for ten, but one slipped through -- they are hard to count
in such numbers!) and nearly six months later all are alive and thriving. The key there is, as suggested several times above, to "seed" the new tank with old materials, either filter or plant cuttings. In small tanks, I think plants should be really thick! Harder to see the fish, but they do better. Do you have lots of plants?

As for delicate fish, yes, I've lost one that was clearly injured by the netting, and have an albino glowlight tetra in my 23 gallon home tank with a gill that seems to have been injured, but it is doing fine after three months. In fact, it (a female) is now protecting its "turf" and is weirdly belligerent compared to the regular glowlights. There is another albino female, and two smaller males, and they all prefer to hide in the plants more. Lots of plants takes away some
stress, I firmly believe, and have read that ember tetras in particular do better in planted tanks.
 

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Find a better supplier. Really. A good supplier is everything in this hobby. And quarantine (keep a sponge filter going somewhere so you can pop it into a tank for QT when needed) every critter you get for several weeks to a month - maybe longer if necessary. One week isn't a quarantine. You need to keep new livestock separated long enough to give any potential illnesses and infections to become apparent. Many illness/disease/parasite lifecycles take far longer than a week to show up.

I can count on one hand the number of fish I've lost from stress or being unhealthy from a supplier in more than 20 years. I've lost shrimp like that because people tend to be more unscrupulous when it comes to shrimping.

Losing 50% of stock within a month of receiving fish is wild to me. Are you buying from online suppliers? Locals?
Where you buy from is definitely important. I have a local fish store that is very good. Knowledgeable staff, never dead or sick fish in the tank. I bought 5 oto from them and they all survived which after reading peoples success rates from petco is pretty good in my opinion. I paid a fair bit more than I would from a big box store but I’d rather pay more and have healthy fish while supporting a local company who provides quality live stock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Do you have lots of plants?
I do have many plants, and also 2 rock structures with caves. There's plenty of places to hide.

I bought 6 endlers last week, and there's only 2 left now, after 6 days. I drip acclimated them. It seems I need to reevaluate my process for adding fish, and perhaps get a quarantine jug.
 

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50% is very high. I get my nanofish shipped from good sources. I can't remember having new fish die, but I'm sure they must have. I think what you are experiencing is not normal. I wouldn't put more fish in until you sort it out.

You seem to have a good LFS. Have you asked for their advice?
 

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Hi all,

I'm curious to hear what your survival rate of nano fish is when introduced to your tank. Let's say, after 2 weeks?

I feel like my survival rate after 2 weeks is around 50%, and that's generous. I've gotten into the habit of buying around double the amount of fish I would actually like to have. And even then, I struggle to keep 4 out of 8 originals, more than a few months.

What are your stats? Any pointers on getting a group of nano fish off to a good healthy start? Would love to hear more peoples experiences.
Nano fish are great, nano tanks - not so much. They putrify quickly/easily. We can't rely on industry standards. These products etc are designed for economic viability not fish survival. Stop putting all the additives in your tank if you want fish to heal back from transport and then being housed in some distributor's gross tanks. Think of your quarantine tank as a health spa for fish in recovery. They've been through a lot to get to us. They're tramatised. QT should be even better than the display as far as water quality. No fancy plants. Get something prolific and indestructible like water sprite or hornwort. No additives. Try to use real water from the ground not recycled pish from the tap. Research the fish and see where they're coming from versus what you can provide.
Welcome them with live foods they'll actually eat and not just pollute the water.
Also and this is most important: don't buy the holy grail fish when you see it and it looks unhealthy. Buy from the largest group of the healthiest fish they have even if they aren't the fishes you want.
If you heed my words there's no reason why you shouldn't have 100% survival rate every time. In fact this can even become problematic when they start breeding and surviving and then need to be re-homed. They really choose us in a way. Not the other way around. Find the fish that likes your conditions.
 

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Nano fish are great, nano tanks - not so much. They putrify quickly/easily.
A 20-gallon aquarium is considered a nano tank. The only tank that putrefies quickly is one that isn't maintained well. Just about any individual asking questions on a form like this is light years more prepared than the average hobbyist.

Stop putting all the additives in your tank if you want fish to heal back from transport
"Additives" are necessary to remineralize RO/DI water, to detoxify chlorine/chloramine, to treat visible illnesses/infections/parasites.

No additives.
Since you're repeating "additives" - I think it'd be a good idea to explain what you mean. That way there's no confusion. Many "additives" are necessary for a successful planted tank - from fertilizer to Prime to medication to remineralization.

Try to use real water from the ground not recycled pish from the tap.
This is potentially dangerous advice for newcomers to the hobby who may not otherwise know better.

Use water that you can test and verify. In the United States, that generally means your water is coming from a public supply. Water companies in the US are required to release quality reports and you can conduct in-home testing to verify - hardness, chlorine content, etc. Treated tap water is the most common source of tank water in the hobby and it works fine for millions.

As hobbyists progress, they sometimes switch to RO/DI water that contains no mineral content at all. That type of water has to be reconstituted with minerals to be suitable for plant and animal life.
 

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Newcomers to the hobby will inadvertently kill fish learning as they go. Depending on where we are we can access different resources more readily. There's no one answer to "why are my fish dying" it depends on a myriad of variables.
Anyone anywhere can enjoy an aquarium and have success if they keep it simple, local and stop watching videos of some rich kid somewhere that can afford to replicate nature in a lab and get it all delivered to the front door. It's crazy to pay all that money for meds and ferts or else watch it all die. Use what is available to you in your area and save it now for generations to come.
Municipal tap works for certain fish sometimes. If there's a formula that works for you, keep it up but don't expect everyone all over the world to share that experience.
I never recommend commercial products because they become like drugs and the big companies are the dealers. If we can't do this without them they win. We don't need their permission to exist.
Be like water.
 
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