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Sump or Canister Filter

10K views 68 replies 20 participants last post by  ZChalk 
#1 ·
I am in the process of setting up a 48”, 90 gallon high tech planted tank. I have the opportunity to get the tank in a drilled version to set up a sump system. I have never owned a sump so I thought I’d reach out to the community for your thoughts. Here are some of the thing I am wondering:

1- How easy is to maintain sumps? I find cleaning canister filters and the associated hoses a major chore and so they often get extremely dirty. My LFS said that sumps are much easier to clean. No need to clean the plumbing and everything In the sump is easy to access. Is that your experience? This is the main reason I am considering a sump.

2- What about CO2? Is there any issue with CO2 - beyond the fact that I’d expect to have to dose more due to larger surface area, which is not a problem for me.

3 - I have lots oh nano fish - tetras, raspboras etc. - and shrimp. Will the overflow be an issue with them getting sucked into the sump. If it is a problem are there any solutions without reducing the flow from the drain. One person suggested using plastic or stainless steel mesh on the weir which sounded like a good idea. Any other suggestions?

4- Anything else?

Thanks everyone for your input.
 
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#2 ·
One thing you do need to do is use an auto top off system. As a sump requires a constant water level to work properly.
I have used them for 30 years on reef systems. You have to clean the mechanical filter regularly. As it can cause three water level in the sump to change.
As with all things there are trade offs.
 
#4 ·
Thanks. Yes you are right about the top off. I already have a 20 gallon rodi container - I use mineralized rodi water - so I should be able to set that up from the Container. When you say mechanical filter, do you mean the filter socks? If so, I see what you mean. I was hoping to use floss in the sock and replace the floss every couple of days, which I hope is manageable given how easy it is to access - but it may be a case of "the grass is greener".

Bump:
Regarding nano fish and shrimp, they certainly can take a trip to the sump! I have a filter sock which will catch any joy-riders. Some fish take a ride or two then seem to figure it out and aren't caught anymore. Otos in my case fall into that category. Amano shrimp seem to be constantly getting into the sump. I try to look in the filter sock every two or three days but I have lost shrimp to this. Some folks fashion a pre-filter out of mesh but this can reduce your flow and it will need to be maintained.
Thanks. These are indeed the two I have had problems with even with the canister filter. I use a skimmer type intake on my canister, and I had to put a mesh on the skimmer since I kept of digging out dead ottos and amano from the canister at the time of cleaning. Who knows how many had disintegrated between cleanings.
 
#3 ·
Regarding nano fish and shrimp, they certainly can take a trip to the sump! I have a filter sock which will catch any joy-riders. Some fish take a ride or two then seem to figure it out and aren't caught anymore. Otos in my case fall into that category. Amano shrimp seem to be constantly getting into the sump. I try to look in the filter sock every two or three days but I have lost shrimp to this. Some folks fashion a pre-filter out of mesh but this can reduce your flow and it will need to be maintained.
 
#5 ·
I am a fan of sumps when possible. Regarding the ATO for planted tanks, it depends on the design of the sump. Evaporation on FW is far less relevant that SW. SW changes salinity with evaporation. FW just increases the concentration of nutrients, normally by a nominal level. The most important thing is making sure your pump doesn't run dry. If your return section is a few gallons, this may be days or a week for it to run dry. For my sump on my 180, I have a 75 gallon sump. The pump is sectioned off with mattenfilter, so it has access to 50 gallons or so. It would take over a month to run dry. The downside would be if the overflow clogs, the display can overfill and flood. With a beananimal style overflow, this is not a concern.

There are some pictures in my build thread if you are interested in some DIY ideas.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1312137-wills-tanks-journey-pic-heavy.html

Regarding the OG questions
1- Sumps can be as easy or simple to maintain as you want. It is mainly dependent on the design and how much crap you put down there. In FW, this is less of an issue as you wont have a protein skimmer taking space. Most people also do not run many or any reactors or algae scrubbers or....excess equipment. Additionally, stand design will effect ease of maintenance. If you have a sump under the tank and the stand it short, it may be difficult to access the filter. This will be the same issue with a canister, but just something to consider.

2- This is again dependent on the design. For instance, if your drains are above the sump waterline or are not tuned properly (gate valves are the way to go), this will create a ton of surface agitation gassing off co2. Drain lines should sit around 1 inch under the water surface

3-Nanofish will make it into the sump. Depending on design, this may or may not be an issue. If there is a lower flow section, they will make it there and be fine. One major benefit of this is if you have fry, they will make it down there and it is a sanctuary where they will not be eaten. Until I added foam to my canister intake, I would commonly find shrimp in there and occasionally a nano fish fry. They are less likely to live in a canister than a sump.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Thanks. This is very helpful. I’ll make sure my drain does not cause a lot of turbulence to minimize CO2 loss. Also appreciate the Bean Animal overflow suggestion for dealing with a clogged drain. Does Herbie style overflow have the same advantage?

I look forward to checking out your build thread tonight, after work.

Bump:
In my opinion a sump is neither harder nor easier to maintain than a canister filter... it all depends on the design of the sump! When I design a sump I look at each piece of it from a maintenance point of view. I specifically design a sump so that I can maintain it easily. So for me my sumps are MUCH easier to maintain than the wide variety of canister filters I have owned. On the flip side I have seen sumps with such complex designs that maintenance would be a nightmare!

Mechanical media needs to be removed, rinsed and replaced on a regular basis. Design your sump so this is an easy quick task and I think you will find that you are likely to do this more often which should make for healthier and happier fish!
Thanks for your reply. I am new to sumps. Any design tips for prioritizing ease of maintenance would be welcome. Do you have a post about your sump?

Bump:
As someone who setup their first sump system recently I enjoyed it very much. There is definitely a learning curve, it's not plug-and-play like a canister. But I found it very interesting and am enjoying the learning and experimentation. I like the additional water volume and customization/configuration options. I also like how open and accessible everything is. Need to rinse the coarse mechanical sponge? No problem. Where with my canister I'm like ehh do I really feel like disconnecting it and opening it up. It's not a huge difference, but I do feel like the sump is slightly better here.

I haven't had any issues with evaporation screwing up the water level. I've found it to be pretty tolerant in that regard actually. I did have one instance of level going low in the sump, but that was due to feed into sump getting backed up.

Overall if you want something that's going to be plug and play probably go with the canister. But if you are looking for a learning experience, and ability to customize and optimize the sump is the way to go.
Thanks. I feel exactly the same way about opening up my canister - plus I also worry as to how much effort it’ll be to get the siphon going - every now and then it is a bear.

I do like tinkering though, so I hope it’d be fun for me as well.
 
#6 ·
As someone who setup their first sump system recently I enjoyed it very much. There is definitely a learning curve, it's not plug-and-play like a canister. But I found it very interesting and am enjoying the learning and experimentation. I like the additional water volume and customization/configuration options. I also like how open and accessible everything is. Need to rinse the coarse mechanical sponge? No problem. Where with my canister I'm like ehh do I really feel like disconnecting it and opening it up. It's not a huge difference, but I do feel like the sump is slightly better here.

I haven't had any issues with evaporation screwing up the water level. I've found it to be pretty tolerant in that regard actually. I did have one instance of level going low in the sump, but that was due to feed into sump getting backed up.

Overall if you want something that's going to be plug and play probably go with the canister. But if you are looking for a learning experience, and ability to customize and optimize the sump is the way to go.
 
#7 · (Edited)
In my opinion a sump is neither harder nor easier to maintain than a canister filter... it all depends on the design of the sump! When I design a sump I look at each piece of it from a maintenance point of view. I specifically design a sump so that I can maintain it easily. So for me my sumps are MUCH easier to maintain than the wide variety of canister filters I have owned. On the flip side I have seen sumps with such complex designs that maintenance would be a nightmare!

Mechanical media needs to be removed, rinsed and replaced on a regular basis. Design your sump so this is an easy quick task and I think you will find that you are likely to do this more often which should make for healthier and happier fish!

In one of my tanks I have guppies with the associated numerous guppy fry. I use a very coarse sponge filter in front of the overflow to keep the fry from going down the overflow. This sponge is the most maintained piece of my tank as it cakes up with debris pretty quick. It is VERY easy to pull the sponge, rinse it and replace it. I also have a second layer of the same sponge INSIDE the overflow. When I pull the outside piece of sponge I don't have to worry about the fry going into the overflow because of the second piece of sponge. I usually pull the outside sponge, clean it, replace it, then do the same for the inside sponge. I usually do this once a week because the tank level rises when the coarse sponge starts to clog. If both the outside and inside sponge clog the tank water rises over the top of both of them and goes down the overflow before the tank level gets too high and causes a flood.
 
#9 · (Edited)
My overflow. A piece of 2" PVC pipe. It has been running for 5 years without any issues.

My very dirty overflow in need of a cleaning:
Terrestrial plant Plant Grass Terrestrial animal Twig


Pull the outside sponge and rinse:
Plant Leaf Botany Terrestrial plant Grass


Food Finger Wood Ingredient Cuisine



Replace the outside sponge and pull the inside sponge then rinse:
Green Botany Plant Natural material Terrestrial plant


Insect Arthropod Terrestrial plant Pest Invertebrate


This is what my overflow looks like with both sponges removed and the return pump turned off:
Plant Natural material Vegetation Terrestrial plant Grass


This is the sump. About $60 off ebay and perfect for my 35g tank. I lift the lid, pull the filter matt, wash it then replace it all without turning off the pump:
Hood Automotive lighting Yellow Bumper Automotive exterior



Maintenance time is about 3 minutes.

About every month or two I will pull the fine sponge filter under the bio balls and wash it. Due to the design of this commercial sump this is MUCH more of a hassle than it should be!

For those wondering this tank is in my living room and this very simple overflow on my 35g tank is perfectly quiet. The fans on the lights are louder than the overflow.




Here is the sump I am building for my new 180g planted tank:
Wood Flooring Gas Hardwood Machine


Wood Audio equipment Hardwood Flooring Room
 
#11 ·
My overflow. A piece of 2" PVC pipe. It has been running for 5 years without any issues.

My very dirty overflow in need of a cleaning:
View attachment 903497

Pull the outside sponge and rinse:
View attachment 903499

View attachment 903513


Replace the outside sponge and pull the inside sponge then rinse:
View attachment 903501

View attachment 903503

This is what my overflow looks like with both sponges removed and the return pump turned off:
View attachment 903505

This is the sump. About $60 off ebay and perfect for my 35g tank. I lift the lid, pull the filter matt, wash it then replace it all without turning off the pump:
View attachment 903507


Maintenance time is about 3 minutes.

About every month or two I will pull the fine sponge filter under the bio balls and wash it. Due to the design of this commercial sump this is MUCH more of a hassle than it should be!

For those wondering this tank is in my living room and this very simple overflow on my 35g tank is perfectly quiet. The fans on the lights are louder than the overflow.




Here is the sump I am building for my new 180g planted tank:
View attachment 903509

View attachment 903511
Thanks for sharing. Great re the overflow. It makes sense. Your new sump for 180G looks interesting. What is the canister doing? It looks like it is connected to the sump.

Bump:
On a large tank, the draw for me to a sump would be the ability to run the Co2 reactor on a dedicated pump to get optimal diffusion, without cluttering up the tank with equipment or slowing down the filter outflow.
Another draw is the filter media capacity versus a canister filter, being able to run through a prefilter into a range of sponge mesh sizes along with a good amount of biological filter media and chemical media if needed is really appealing.
Thanks for posting this. Good information. I had never thought of a CO2 reactor. I’ll look into that.
 
#10 ·
On a large tank, the draw for me to a sump would be the ability to run the Co2 reactor on a dedicated pump to get optimal diffusion, without cluttering up the tank with equipment or slowing down the filter outflow.
Another draw is the filter media capacity versus a canister filter, being able to run through a prefilter into a range of sponge mesh sizes along with a good amount of biological filter media and chemical media if needed is really appealing.
 
#16 ·
An example of a sump with a skimmer overflow and no ato. Note the only area baffled off is where the pipes flow into the sump. Thus the return pump has access to 50ish gallons of water and would take over a month to run dry.








A sump with a skimmer overflow that does require an ATO. Note the small return pump chamber. Due to the final baffle, the return pump only has access to 3ish gallons and would take days to run dry.

 
#20 ·
I love your simple efficient sump design Sarlindescent! The sponges are really easy to get to and clean. How do you keep the sponges in place while the sump is running?



I like and dislike the sponges. They are 3" thick and slightly oversized in width, 1/2" or so. The friction allows them to stay in place. It is a very effective baffle system and not having to top off is convenient. The major downside, which only happens once a year or so, is cleaning them. Its a giant 18"x18"x3" block of fish $#@!. They are heavy and I have to load them into a rubbermaid and spray them a ton. It's very messy.
 
#21 · (Edited)
If a sump interests you I would go for it. I prefer them to any other type of filtration in most instances. If you find it is not for you you can always put a plug in the bulkhead fitting and use a canister. The thing I've found over the years is whatever type of filtration you use, maintenance should be what you consider easiest for you to maintain! The easier it is for you, the more willing you will be to do it and less chance of ignoring it when life gets busy. There is no one size fits all with that. Depends on set up and access to your filtration. There are plenty of good suggestions by others above for your stock, such as pre-filter etc. It doesn't have to be complicated and expensive. I also make my own equipment, but that's my style. DIY is the hobby with in the hobby for me....also saves a few $$$[censored]The most recent sump I built is a 29G tank I picked up at a $ a gallon sale and used leftover acrylic for dividers. I used a wastebasket with holes drilled in the bottom and sides to hold about 5 gallons of lava rock as bio-media with 100% polyester quilt batting layed on top for mechanical. I rinse out the batting until I decide to change it out. The overflow is just a 2" pipe with teeth drilled in it. It has large bio balls in it to help reduce flow and noise. Ball valves on both drain and return to control flow. My heater is in the sump and CO2 reactor inline with return. The return is plumbed down to black 1/2" CPVC with holes drilled in it like a spray bar the holes go the length of the tank at the bottom about 1" from the substrate surface to blow any debris towards the front and to dispurce the CO2 and nutrients as even as possible. Also, a hole is drilled at the top of the return to prevent siphon back into the sump and flooding. I like having equipment out of the tank Only thing in there is the probe for CO2 controller and sensor for the thermometer hidden by the plants and Overflow. The plumbing for the drain and return are black and easily hidden with plants, driftwood, decor etc. BTW- no ATO on this one. They are nice but only necessary if your water evaporates quickly. Not enough in my situation with the exception of reef tank. I have had a period of 3 weeks before I was able to do a water change and top off and my level was good in the tank and getting close to a little low in the sump, but thats because I left the doors open one night and my dog loves to drink aquarium water
 
#28 ·
Sumps have always seemed so interesting to me. They clearly look superior in function for a many reasons.. and for me particularly the easy access for maintenance and flexibility in gallon size/capacity is very attractive.

The question I have always had is, with no plumbing DIY experience, how risky might it be? How much knowledge/experience should you really have? I'm looking at adding another larger tank and there's some options to have people deliver it and set up the overflow/sump, but I think that wouldn't be wise going into blindly. If I were to have one, I should probably know how to change/fix things myself.

I'm willing to do my youtube research and reading, but if anyone jumped into sumps without much DIY experience I'd be interested in any insight. Just always worry about some freak accident (which I know is stupid as it can also happen with canisters lol, it just never has for me (yet)).
 
#29 ·
Research always helps, but the process is largely easy. Personally, I would ONLY do a sump on a drilled tank. Those over the top overflows are much higher risk. Additionally, 2 properly sized drains is fairly safe, 3 is near impossible to flood the display.


As for doing the plumbing yourself, its pretty simple. Just measure twice, cut once, and dry fit it before gluing. Unions are very beneficial to be able to dismantle and clean the system. If you have a router with a roundover bit, it makes it even more simple to put a nice chamfer on the cuts (not required for aquarium).


IMO, glue is better than threaded in anything possible. My properly glued joints have never leaked. My threaded ones normally did a little until I got the proper amount of tape on them. Additionally, most hardware stores sell clear pvc glue and lowes, at least near me, sells clear primer. Do not use purple primer if at all possible. It stains everything and shows on plumbing, no matter how careful you are applying. Spa tubing/flex PVC can be used also for some runs. It can make certain runs easier, although not needed.



 
#32 · (Edited)
Thanks to everyone for your input. I think at this point I’ll be going with a sump. Having seen all the amazing tanks and sumps in this thread, however, I do not think I have the skills (or the needed patience/meticulousness) to do DIY. The standard tanks like marineland seem to come with two holes only, which means doing bean animal or herbie overflows require an external return line that goes over the rim. I do not like that. So I looked at the marine tank kits such as Red Sea. Does anyone see an issue using these for a planted tank with CO2? I’ll see if I can find an affordable one.
 
#35 ·
I have two tanks of equivalent (display) size (~70g) - one with a sump and one with a canister, both planted. I tend to prefer the sump. here are some pros:

-you have an area to deploy equipment without the need to worry about whether or not it looks nice. the most obvious point here is the heater. i use a 500w inline heater on the canister-filtered tank, and it works fine, but in the sump tank i'm able to use dual 200w probes on a more sophisticated temperature controller.

-you can have as much filtration as you want. in a freshwater setting (i.e., with no protein skimmer in there), you have tons of room for whatever sponges, floss, bio beads, etc you may want.

-depending on your overflow configuration, it can be much cleaner visually. in the other tank i have glass pipes which inevitably get pretty scummy.

-constant water level. while it's no less work to add water to top off the ATO reservoir vs. adding it to the tank itself, it keeps the display a bit more tidy (no band at the top of the tank from evaporation)

-more overall water volume.

-surface skimming by default.

-lots of surface agitation and good gas exchange.

now, some cons:

-if you acquire pest snails (as i have done), they can partially block your primary overflow (my primary overflow has a tunable diaphragm to control flow and, therefore, noise). every. damn. day. ugh. it makes what would otherwise be a very quiet and stable design noisy and volatile.

-i think it would be difficult to have a sump be nearly as quiet as a good canister filter. at a minimum, you'd want to really do your homework and get the quietest return pump you can. you may still need to do some vibration mitigation with soft tubing and/or silicone. i didn't skimp on my return pump and it's still quite a bit louder than a canister (using an FX4 in the other tank).

-cleaning the sump *can* be a pain, depending on how you configure it. but, even if it's well-configured, this isn't something you can pick up and tip over the sink after placing your biomedia in a bucket. any crud in the bottom of your sump will need to be sucked out. since your sump is probably near floor level, a simple siphon isn't going to cut it. you'll need a utility pump for this. i find it to be a much more involved process than a cleanout of the canister.

-you may have less flexibility on your return (i.e., flow) position. you can use loc-line and nozzles to customize your flow.

-i think it's a little more difficult to achieve good co2 saturation with a sump. i have it dialed in now, but it was tricky at first. my eventual solution was a 20" cerges reactor (which sits in the sump). this is powered off the (overpowered) return pump, but all flow doesn't go through the reactor. to get enough flow in the tank, there's way too much flow in the reactor, unless you have a bypass. my return line splits off to the reactor and back from the reactor onto the main return line. in between the split off to and return from the reactor is a ball valve which is partially closed. this forces some (but not all!) water to the reactor. in the line back from the reactor, there is also a ball valve. this one lets you control reactor back pressure, which is useful for increasing dissolution and also - critically - for burping the reactor when it gets an air pocket. without this i had to try and tip the reactor to get rid of the air pockets, and this was verging on impossible because it was in the sump. this is a pretty simple setup in that it only requires one pump, you just have to overbuy on the pump in terms of GPH.

-critters will find their way into the sump. many shrimp have met their end in the primary overflow diaphragm, for example.

-feeding can be more difficult because any floating food will go straight into the overflow. you'll probably want to turn the return pump off for feedings, which may cause other problems (see air bubbles in the reactor, for example)
 
#53 ·
been running 2 jebao (DCT 6000, DCP 8000) pumps for at least 4 years now and they haven't given me a problem yet. Think my Jebao pp-8 wave maker powerhead thing crapped out in like 1.5 years though, might be from the lack of maintenance though
 
#54 ·
I have a small bristlenose orange pleco and a cory fishes that went for a ride in my sump a couple times and thought they were getting in through the holes in overflow so I put a nylon screen around it but they still got in and I realized it was through the gap under my return pipe they were entering so I blocked the gap and removed the screen enclosure I had build and everything has been good since .
 
#62 ·
ive an odd set up on my 48" as part experiment/part using what i had around. So the frame is an old angle iron job dating from 70s or 80s made for 2 tanks one above the other, the tank is a 90s all glass and sits on the lower shelf meaning there is a anagle iron rim/shelf just above it. Over this is a wooden hood with front half hinged. The canister filter under the tank is empty, no media at all (and no cleaning other than annual de clag the impeller) , its just a way to keep the hardware outside the tank. this outputs to a diy palastic crate and lava rock shower filter on top of one end of the hood that drains into a planter trough (with pothos etc in it) running the rest of the hood length and then a drain tube back into the tank. It also extends a few inches past the tank and i have a hose pipe fitting there so can block the tank return drain and feed the return flow down a hose out to the garden at water changes. Not really a sump or a canister but kind of Frankenstein mix of the two..but no need for auto top off. I does mean you need to be the kind of person that likes to see the workings around the tank rather than some minimalist cabinetry though :)
 
#64 ·
Somewhat reviving this. I'm thinking about purchasing a waterbox aquarium with built in sump. Pricey I know, but that's not an issue to me, plus the tanks are quality and get a lot of good reviews. I'm still on the fence of with and without a sump, and only because I found out that I may need to travel for a few weeks at a time in my new role.

I'd have someone check my home/tank once a week, but is there any reason to think I'd have to worry about being away from a sump'ed tank in comparison to a canister? Especially if it's a foolproof (me, I'm the fool lol) professionally made sump?

I've just never had much if any issues with a canister.. a bit paranoid. Thanks in advance for any help or opinions!
 
#65 ·
Somewhat reviving this. I'm thinking about purchasing a waterbox aquarium with built in sump. Pricey I know, but that's not an issue to me, plus the tanks are quality and get a lot of good reviews. I'm still on the fence of with and without a sump, and only because I found out that I may need to travel for a few weeks at a time in my new role.

I'd have someone check my home/tank once a week, but is there any reason to think I'd have to worry about being away from a sump'ed tank in comparison to a canister? Especially if it's a foolproof (me, I'm the fool lol) professionally made sump?

I've just never had much if any issues with a canister.. a bit paranoid. Thanks in advance for any help or opinions!
The only possible concern with leaving a sumped tank depends on the design of the sump. This issue would be that the pump can run dry if evaporation is too much during the time you are gone. The way I resolved this for my 180 was I only have baffles on the drain pipe section to route through filter floss. Then I use matten filter for "baffles", requiring 40ish gallons of evaporation before my pump runs dry.

The alternative method that is used all the time on reef tanks is an ATO, auto top off. I have 2 tunze osmolators on my reefs and have been very pleased with them. Basically, you have an external container of replacement water and a float switch in the pump section. When the water evaporates, the float triggers a pump to turn on and refill the tank.

Even with a canister, too much evaporation can be an issue depending on drain level or plant height. If it evaporates believe plant levels, the plants can dry out. To help with this issue, I would look into building a semi air tight lid. This can reduce evaporation significantly, in my experience by around 90%.
 
#67 ·
One thing to note about the amount of water immediately available to the pump... If your drains become clogged, the amount of water in your pump chamber is how much ends up on your floor. A smallish volume pump chamber with an ATO is a safeguard against this. If the drains clog, you may get a motor burnout, but no flood.

This is probably unlikely with a redundant drain setup and the downside is the need to regularly top off the ATO reservoir.

Just something to be aware of.
 
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