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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is my first question on this forum in a long time! I've got a heavily planted standard 75g AGA aquarium, ADA Amazonia substrate, Rena XP3 & XP1 filters, 4x54w t5 lighting. Current stocking is 12 black skirt tetras, 6 otos, 1 albino bristlenose, and a pair of keyhole cichlids. Obviously I'm understocked and my tank looks empty, especially since all the plants effectively swallow up the fish.

I'll probably bump the # of black skirts up to 20. How many P. scalare should I get? I just want the standard zebras. 5-6 seem reasonable?

Also, will the angels help my tetras school better? The keyholes are pretty lame dithers; they keep to themselves along the bottom of the tank.
 

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5 would be fine, BUT they will start to pair off and fight.

I have a pair (standard zebra and a pearlscale platinum) and they fight constantly. I'm actually getting quite sick of it, considering rehoming them. But i think my male is just a big bully, i have never seen a more aggressive angelfish.

I'd wait and see what anyone else has to say. Although i've had my 2 angels for 6+ years, i've never had a group of them in one aquarium.
 

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Last time I got 5 young angels for my 75 and 2 paired up. The other 3 got picked on constantly until I removed them. After the male in the pair died a while later, I sold the female and picked up another group of 5 young angels. This time it looks like I have two pairs. One appears to own the left half of the tank and the other owns the right. The fifth and remaining angel had to be removed after getting picked on by both pairs.
 

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I was up to 18 juvies in my 125 gal and they have done really well. Some of them are getting old enough to pair off, and when they do start spawning, they do a lot of charging at the other fish if they get close to the fry. I have sold the two pairs that have formed.

Angels are such beautiful fish. I think it is too bad they don't get used more often. They aren't aggressive enough to be liked by people who like to keep big aggressive tanks, and they are too aggressive for most people who have community tanks. I think some people don't like them because they are not as "cool" as discus. They are like the loser little brother to the cool discus.

I haven't keep angels long enough to really have a good feel for what a big school like mine will be like as they get older. So far I have been happy with them. That said, I am trying to clear out some of mine right now to make room for discus. If the weather was nicer, I could ship some nice sub adult wild peruvians.
 

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I have 4 large angel pairs in my 75 gallon planted tank with no problems. They've been in there almost two years. I've actually had up to 6 mated pairs in there at once. They got along fine but the tank looked cluttered and was obviously overstocked so I've given some away. Basically, each pair stays with their mate almost 100% of the time and each pair has their own area of the tank where they spend most of their time. Whichever pair currently has eggs or fry seems to be the dominate pair and the others will stay out of their way. Mom and Dad guard their eggs and occasionally charge someone at the other end of the tank to remind everyone who's in charge.

I would get 6-8 small angels about quarter sized and let them grow up together and pair off. Have a plan to get rid of some if things get aggressive. The key seems to be getting them small. I've raised angel fry to quarter size with 20 in a 20 gallon. That should not have worked but did, I think, because of them growing up together.

Can’t offer any advice on the tetra’s .My tank is similar to yours. Angels, otos, BN pleco, cories. I have Rummy Nose Tetras which are really tight schoolers and fun to watch. Had some Neons but the angels got big and well... no more neons lol
 

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Each fish is different and has different personality.
If you start off with 5 juv. Angels, you might be OK in a well planted tank.
When they start developing pairs, is when most problems start.
I now keep only one pair in 65 and 55GL.
Plus they get big, just like discus, when you are talking about schooling, we are talking about 125GL plus size tanks and about 15 plus angels, usually on a juvi side.
When a pair develops any top fish is a target, any small top fish is a nice snack.
You can start with 5 juv. in a 75gl, but make sure you have a back up plan.
Nice fish to keep, there are a couple dealers/breeders that really got some beautiful fish you can get.
Clean water is a key.
I like to keep angels as the only top fish, with rams, apistos, Otos on the large size, corys, BNs.
If you want to have a pair, you might need to start with 5 on the juvi size, until they pair up, very hard to sex.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This tank has lots of really big folliage (apons. and crypts) reducing sight lines and offering many territories. I'll try 8 juvies and see what happens. I chose high-bodied tetras so they don't become lunch. I've got a backup plan: second tank & friendly LFS that takes fish for credit. I should have mentioned in the OP that I've got lots of experience with SA & African cichlids so I'm familiar with aggression, just never done angels. Thanks for the advice all.
 

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If you want Angel I would seriously consider getting rid of the black skirt tetras. those fish are very aggressive and fill nip the angels fins to death.

You can start with a group of juvies and let them grow out. Once you get a pair you could find homes for the rest of the fish. Your tank is really not that big to support a large group of angels (juvies are fine, but adults are quite large). Another option is that once they are sexed out you could keep 3 or 4 max of the same sex, and they won´t fight as much if they can´t breed
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Got 6 locally bred juvenile angels (2-2.5") on Tuesday. They're black/silver. Active and eating. Nice fish!

The black skirts aren't bothering them at all. They've never been aggressive or 'fin nippers' in my experience (my Keyhole's have very long fins).
 

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I don't think you will have a lot of problems with the tetras nipping the angels. The angels are mean enough to turn on the tetras and attack them if they get too annoying.

Six is a good number for that size tank. As they grow, you may have to thin them out if you start getting aggressive pairs. To minimize the aggression in the adults, the best thing to do would be to try to get them down to either only females or only males, so you have no pairs. Hard to do though, since they're so difficult to sex.
 

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In my 220 I started out with 50 juvies. I have sold off 10 pairs and plan on getting rid of some more and just keep 4 or 5 pairs in there. But I also have a backup plan of a 40 gal breeder that I put a pair in when they get ready to breed. They still school together between breeding but once that starts all heck breaks out.
 
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