[Malakian]

I bought a steam cleaner couple of months ago, and works great on pretty much everything you can imagine of dirt. So this idea about maybe using the steam cleaner to get rid of the algae on my 3D background popped into my head.

The plan was to empty most of the water, use the steam cleaner on my background, only had water in it, never any kind of chemicals (Though water is also a chemical :tongue: ). Hopefully killing and maybe, just maybe remove it as well. The killing should be enough though, since I have an epic clean-up crew, consisting of Amano shrimp, Red cherry shrimp, Otocinclus, SAE's, platy's and Malaysian trumpet snails.

Think this would work?

 

[Solcielo lawrencia]

Probably.

 

[Malakian]

Couldn't find any info on the net about it, and I think of my Google-Fu as pretty good :tongue:

And not much response here, so I guess I'll just try. Hopefully I manage to take some pictures and post an update here. If its effective it seems like a darn good approach to algae, since you are just using water. This is after correcting the contributors to the algae.

Though I would be cautious about having the steamer at the same spot for an extended time on the glass, wouldn't want to give the glass thermal-shock. Though people I have talked to (works with glass/windows) said the glass should handle it well, as the steam is no more than 100 degrees Celsius.

They told me the glass had to be like freezing cold for it to crack under a thermal-shock from 100 degrees, and since its filled with water, or at least partially, the heat would dissipate even faster.

Little off topic: The tank has been neglected some time and algae have covered my background. The plants, glass and equipment have been washed clean, but the background is so porous it would take me probably a whole day with toothbrush to get off. Is it really crucial to remove most/all algae for it to go away, or will it die either way if I manage to balance my nutes,Co2 and lights?

From my calculations for Co2, dropchecker yellow, Kh 5 PH 6.4, and when I aerate the co2 out of the water in a cup, the PH rises to 7.8. So my Co2 certainly isn't lacking, should be way over 30ppm (adjusted to stress seen in fish, then dialed it back down a touch). Dose according to EI Daily with this calc http://calc.petalphile.com/, and have 2x 39w T5HO with these reflectors. Tank is 260L or approx. 69 gallons, with a depth to substrate from lights at 20". 8 hour photo period. 50% water change 2 times a week. Fluval FX6 with AC, Purigen and Eheim Substrat Pro. Eheim 2224, mostly mechanical filter and a 2000L/H power head. Heavily planted, and have several fast growing plants such as Hygrophila Siamensis 53B, Hygrophila Corymbosa "Compact" and Water sprite. Any ideas as how the algae keeps coming back? In my mind I'm doing everything right. At the brim of giving up and tearing it all down.

 

[Malakian]

And also, from what I can see I have GSA, GDA. And some BBA, though not spreading, just not dying.

 

[Malakian]

Some pictures, this is after about 2 months after hack down and clean up.
Cleaned the glass several times, not so much plants and decor.

 

[PlantedRich]

I might question what material the background is made of? Foam, plastic may not react well to the heat?

 

[Malakian]

True, didn't think about that. Its a Juwel Rock 3D background, some sort of foam. Mine is more sand colored, than the reddish/brown I linked to. Or at least it used to be sand colored :icon_roll

 

[Malakian]

From a little research, I see that it's made of highly condensed polyurethane. And should tolerate up to 200 degrees Celsius at short exposures.

Guess ill just test a less visible patch first, and see what happens.

 

[g4search]

Malakian,
this sounds like a revolutionary idea; it should work somewhat like a steam sterilizer although there the steam is under pressure (to reach the required 121 deg Celsius).

I am sure that all your equipment will be fine and endure the steam treatment. (Did you know that you can bring water to a boil in a paper cup over an open flame and the paper will not burn or deform? - have done the experiment myself)

Anyway, I think your main concern here should be the hot water that is generated when the steam condenses! Where does it go and what will it do? I suppose it will run down into your remaining aquarium water (with fish in it?) and slowly heat it up?

I suppose this would limit your steam treatment to only a couple of minutes? It would be interesting to learn how you solve this problem? [ you could frequently add cold water to the remaining water, or replace it altogether?

Please let us know how you worked it out.

 

[Midnighttide102]

Honestly all you need to kill & keep the algae at bay is a spray bottle filled with Hydrogine Peroxcide spray it directly on the algae even on your decor it is harmless to fish & plants but works wonders on algae alot of breeders use it to keep fungus from developing on fish eggs so like I said it's pretty harmless to use in the tank on a regular basics

 

[Malakian]

Malakian,
this sounds like a revolutionary idea; it should work somewhat like a steam sterilizer although there the steam is under pressure (to reach the required 121 deg Celsius).

I am sure that all your equipment will be fine and endure the steam treatment. (Did you know that you can bring water to a boil in a paper cup over an open flame and the paper will not burn or deform? - have done the experiment myself)

Anyway, I think your main concern here should be the hot water that is generated when the steam condenses! Where does it go and what will it do? I suppose it will run down into your remaining aquarium water (with fish in it?) and slowly heat it up?

I suppose this would limit your steam treatment to only a couple of minutes? It would be interesting to learn how you solve this problem? [ you could frequently add cold water to the remaining water, or replace it altogether?

Please let us know how you worked it out.

I would have to put a digital thermometer or something to monitor the temperature for sure. Good call.

But I guess it would be fairly marginal since the steamer holds about 2 L of water, and that last a good 30+ min. And the remaining water in the tank would have a volume of about 70-100L. My concern now is what this may do to the plants, if the relatively hot water gets in direct contact with plants. Will it damage them, or will the heat just dissipate before any harm occurs.

Guess ill just have to see, have some emersed nurseries going, so I can sacrifice some plants.

Thanks for the positive feedback. Thought it was a pretty good idea myself, and quickly found that it has not been tested, or at least not "published"

To the other post, yes I do know peroxide works well, and proven method. Except on GSA, which the H2O2 would only kill the "outer shell", and you would have to continue the treatment for weeks to completely kill it. And it is safe to use at reasonable doses, but it is a really strong/harsh chemical. Think at the concentration we are using it at, and it still kills stuff. And I don't really like adding stuff to the tank that is so effective at killing biological organisms.

And it's impossible to come by here in Norway, and would be pretty hard to get past our Custom hell. Things don't even need to have restrictions, just look like some kind of scientific/medical stuff and they immediately gets sent back.

I'll get back to you tomorrow with an update when I do my water change.

 

[Malakian]

So I got a chance to test it today, and it seemed to work rather well. As some of the pictures will show, the algae instantly turned red from the steam. Or at least most of it, seems like the damn panzer shell of the GSA even can take extreme heat.

As for the temperature, I have some run-away HC that is growing in the crack on the top of the background, got sprayed pretty good and no ill signs. Also the water temperature didn't rise any measurable amount. Most of the steam just dissipates into the room.

Ended up doing one pass with the steamer, waited 10 minutes, then did a second round.

Heating up the steamer:icon_twis :



Before:





After quick spot test, like 1 sec burst:



After 1st pass:





After 2nd pass and WC:







Sorry about the cloudy water, but it will linger for a couple of hours because of the CaSO4 and NaHCO3 I add at water changes.
Will try to take a picture tomorrow when the water is clear again.

 

[g4search]

Malakian,
that's impressive.

The question that remains though is, how do you get the algae off the plant leaves?

 

[Malakian]

No idea, I think I would damage the leaves if I tried to get rid of the GSA, as it is so stubborn. So the plan is really to get everything balanced out so it stops growing algae and then remove all the affected leaves.

May try some Glutaraldehyde (Excel) spot treatment, managed to get some 24% 1L at the pharmacy though it cost me 95$, but it will last me forever as I will get about 15L of solution equivalent to Excel strength. As it is the only thing I have used that will kill GSA in just a couple of treatments. But I probably cant treat all the plants with that, as some don't react well to the glutaraldehyde. Only tried it on Anubias so far.

 

[g4search]

well, using glutaral makes the steam-cleaning kind of redundant, doesn't it? If you treat the leaves with that you might as well treat the walls too. Unfortunately, it will not really remedy your algae problem. I think for that you probably have to tinker with your lights.

Be careful with that 24%glutaraldehyde, that stuff is nasty! (Btw, the prize for glutaraldehyde over there is ok. We can buy here 1 L of the 24% aqueous solution for $108. But dedicated people in the hobby typical buy 1 Gal of a 2.5% solution (MetriCide 28) for $20. That's still a heck of a lot cheaper than $12.- for 500 mL of a 1.6% solution that is offered in the local pet stores.)

I have been using glutaral for some time now in a low tech tank. Especially one of my Amazon swords seem to really love that stuff. It was probably limited by CO2 supply, so when I started feeding glutaraldehyde it literally took over the entire tank.

Also, I would not worry about your GSA. Typically, they hang around for 3-4 weeks and then seem to just disappear (only to make room for another algae problem

 

[Malakian]

I know it's nasty stuff. We have 60-80% Glut at work in 1000L containers, and I have the responsibility for the lab there. So I know how to treat chemicals, and what they are capable of. Have spilled it on my skin before at that concentration, and it turns the skin hard and yellow. Like I've been smoking 100 cigarettes a day for 50 years :hihi: And the smell of it is just the worst synthetic stinging chemical smell you can imagine.

I am more cautious about the H2O2 as I have oto's and shrimp, which seem pretty sensitive to this stuff. And the glut not so much, you can even acclimate the inhabitants with glut, and they will tolerate more of it gradually. And H2O2 seems to be more irritating to the fish/shrimp than glut.

Doesn't make it redundant. First off, I could not spot treat the wall, as the amount needed for that would be a lot more than the tank could handle in one go. Sure you could do it several times in patches, but seems like a lot of effort.

I have started dosing double the amount of mono potassium phosphate (at end of week I measure about 5ppm) according to EI about 1 week ago, so hopefully that will help with the GSA. Have had this for over 1 year so it doesn't seem to want to go away on its own.

I have been tinkering with the lights. Used to have 2x 39w T5HO + 1x 42W T5HO with 10 hour photo period. I now have as stated before, 2x39w at 8 hours. That surely can't be to much on a 70 gallon, seems like a little on the low side. But I have no PAR meter so can not be sure.

Just bought 4x 30w Cool white Flood LED's from eBay, which I plan to install dimmers on, so its even easier to tinker. Both with the power, and having the ability to lower and raise the lights, as it will be hanging. Now I have a hood thats directly over the water surface.

 

[Malakian]

Just wanted to add, that I totally agree with the price of Excel is ridiculous. Especially for me in the town of Stavanger. Haven't found one local shop that sells excel or any equivalent. And importing it makes it cost around 45-50$ pr 500ml :icon_eek: