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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi!

I am new to this forum and the fish keeping hobby, I just set up my 40 gallon tank for 2 fancy goldfish (I have not gotten fish yet). I am jumping on here to ask if anyone in the Minneapolis/St. Paul MN area would be willing to share some biological media with me to jump start my aquarium. Or know of any fish stores who might be willing to let me have some of there's

Thanks a bunch!!
 

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Welcome aboard! The usual recommend approach to a new tank is to let the tank cycle before adding fish. Since you have added fish before the tank has cycled (you are not the only one to do this, especially when first starting out) is to do large daily water changes to keep the fish from dyeing while your tank is cycling. I would recommend 50% water changes daily until you have no Ammonia and Nitrites in your water tests. Which of course means a water test kit like the API water test kit is really needed to monitor your water parameters. https://www.amazon.com/API-FRESHWAT...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Adding some cycled biological media will most likely shorten the time your tank takes to cycle but it will not eliminate the cycling process. I.e. you still will have several weeks of daily large water changes to keep your fish healthy!
 

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To add to what @oughtsaid, most people cycle the tank before adding the fish. The ammonia that fish excrete is toxic, and will cause burns to their gills and skin. It needs to be neutralized immediately.

I would recommend daily 50% water changes (or more!) When you do your water change, also dose the tank with Seachem Prime per their dosing instructions. This will remove and chlorine or chloramine in your water, and bind up the ammonia and nitrite produced in your cycle. These daily water changes need to continue until you are registering zero ammonia or nitrite when you test your water.

My only other point, is that a 40g tank is way, way too small for 2 fish that will grow to be 12" each. I have absolutely no idea why fish stores continue to sell goldfish to be kept in aquariums, but they really belong in 300g+ tanks or ponds. When their tank is too small, their growth will be stunted and deformed. The biggest problem with this, is that their organs will not grow smaller as well. This leads to increasingly sick fish. Read this article for some more info...

 

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Since you have fish in your tank, it would be best to follow a Fish-In-Cycle now.

EDIT - Since no fish, as I misread the post, you can do a fishless cycle.

Ammonia is not instantly toxic to fish, it takes weeks for any ammonia poisoning to show itself and is only highly toxic at high pH levels (8.3 or above). However, any ammonia in a cycled tank is a sign of poor filtration. Ammonia is only removed by water changes and plants, so even a 80% water change will bring ammonia down by 80%. Large water changes are not harmful to fish (a myth that won't die). If you do find any media that can be used to speed your cycle, just squeeze out that media directly into the water so your filter media will suck it up and deposit it on the new media faster.
 

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Hi!

I am new to this forum and the fish keeping hobby, I just set up my 40 gallon tank for 2 fancy goldfish. I am jumping on here to ask if anyone in the Minneapolis/St. Paul MN area would be willing to share some biological media with me to jump start my aquarium. Or know of any fish stores who might be willing to let me have some of there's

Thanks a bunch!!
Hello and welcome!

Based on your post not sure if there are fish in the tank or not. Sorry I don't live close to you so won't be able to help with the media but you can contact local fish stores for some media or gravel you can have. Also bottled bacteria products like fitz or Tetra safe start can help. Good luck!
 

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Hello and welcome!

Based on your post not sure if there are fish in the tank or not. Sorry I don't live close to you so won't be able to help with the media but you can contact local fish stores for some media or gravel you can have. Also bottled bacteria products like fitz or Tetra safe start can help. Good luck!
@minorhero brings up a good point... You said your tank was set up for 2 goldfish, not that you had already bought the fish.

If you already have the fish, then my previous post remains true. If you haven't gotten the fish yet, then you should google "fishless cycle", and find a technique that will work for you. When I did mine, I added 2ppm of household ammonia, and then waited for the bacteria to consume it. Once the ammonia reads zero, dose it again. Your goal is to continue this process until your tank converts 2ppm of ammonia to nitrate in 24 hours.

Also, if you haven't bought the fish yet, look into stocking some other species. a 40G tank isn't big enough for Goldfish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi

Everyone just wanted to say that I have not gotten fish yet

Thanks for all the advice

@minorhero brings up a good point... You said your tank was set up for 2 goldfish, not that you had already bought the fish.

If you already have the fish, then my previous post remains true. If you haven't gotten the fish yet, then you should google "fishless cycle", and find a technique that will work for you. When I did mine, I added 2ppm of household ammonia, and then waited for the bacteria to consume it. Once the ammonia reads zero, dose it again. Your goal is to continue this process until your tank converts 2ppm of ammonia to nitrate in 24 hours.

Also, if you haven't bought the fish yet, look into stocking some other species. a 40G tank isn't big enough for Goldfish.

From the the research I've done I herd 20g for the first fancy goldfish and 10g for the next, would you not recommend that? I plan on getting ranchu goldfish
 

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From the the research I've done I herd 20g for the first fancy goldfish and 10g for the next, would you not recommend that? I plan on getting ranchu goldfish
Sooo fishtank size is one of those things with few hard numbers and lots of opinions. 40 gallons is probably the smallest you could get away with for Ranchi in my opinion. But this is just my opinion. I'd also say that Ranchu are not a great beginner fish. Goldfish have a reputation for being beginner fish but this is definitely false, they are intermediate. They tend to be prone to health issues and frankly have been inbred a lot so they can have weird formation issues as well. I'd recommend a different fish BUT this might be your dream fish that got you interested in the hobby to begin with. If that is the case, go for it just be prepared to do extra maintenance to keep them healthy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
To add to what @oughtsaid, most people cycle the tank before adding the fish. The ammonia that fish excrete is toxic, and will cause burns to their gills and skin. It needs to be neutralized immediately.

I would recommend daily 50% water changes (or more!) When you do your water change, also dose the tank with Seachem Prime per their dosing instructions. This will remove and chlorine or chloramine in your water, and bind up the ammonia and nitrite produced in your cycle. These daily water changes need to continue until you are registering zero ammonia or nitrite when you test your water.

My only other point, is that a 40g tank is way, way too small for 2 fish that will grow to be 12" each. I have absolutely no idea why fish stores continue to sell goldfish to be kept in aquariums, but they really belong in 300g+ tanks or ponds. When their tank is too small, their growth will be stunted and deformed. The biggest problem with this, is that their organs will not grow smaller as well. This leads to increasingly sick fish. Read this article for some more info...

To add to what @oughtsaid, most people cycle the tank before adding the fish. The ammonia that fish excrete is toxic, and will cause burns to their gills and skin. It needs to be neutralized immediately.

I would recommend daily 50% water changes (or more!) When you do your water change, also dose the tank with Seachem Prime per their dosing instructions. This will remove and chlorine or chloramine in your water, and bind up the ammonia and nitrite produced in your cycle. These daily water changes need to continue until you are registering zero ammonia or nitrite when you test your water.

My only other point, is that a 40g tank is way, way too small for 2 fish that will grow to be 12" each. I have absolutely no idea why fish stores continue to sell goldfish to be kept in aquariums, but they really belong in 300g+ tanks or ponds. When their tank is too small, their growth will be stunted and deformed. The biggest problem with this, is that their organs will not grow smaller as well. This leads to increasingly sick fish. Read this article for some more info...


Ok so now I'm confused. From the research Ive done I herd it was 20g for the first goldfish and 10g for the next. Should I not follow that? I have gotten a lot of my info from Solid Gold Aquatics and she has kept fancy goldfish in 40g so I'm not sure what to do...

Sooo fishtank size is one of those things with few hard numbers and lots of opinions. 40 gallons is probably the smallest you could get away with for Ranchi in my opinion. But this is just my opinion. I'd also say that Ranchu are not a great beginner fish. Goldfish have a reputation for being beginner fish but this is definitely false, they are intermediate. They tend to be prone to health issues and frankly have been inbred a lot so they can have weird formation issues as well. I'd recommend a different fish BUT this might be your dream fish that got you interested in the hobby to begin with. If that is the case, go for it just be prepared to do extra maintenance to keep them healthy.
Ok thanks that cleared up some of my confusion, and yes ranchu is the fish that got me into fish so if possible thats what I want to keep. What extra steps do you recommend me take. I know the basics on how to care for a fish but thats about it lol.
 

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From the the research I've done I herd 20g for the first fancy goldfish and 10g for the next, would you not recommend that? I plan on getting ranchu goldfish
No, I would definitely not get goldfish.

Can you keep 2 Goldfish alive in a 40G tank? Sure, they'll stay alive. This doesn't mean that they will have a healthy, enriching environment.

If Ranchu Goldfish were in a pond, they can grow to 18" long. Keeping one in a 40G tank would be akin to letting your dog live his whole life in his crate. Would he stay alive? Maybe. Would it be considered animal abuse? Absolutely.

I'm going to add here that I'm very conscious of our responsibilities as fish owners. We keep live animals in glass boxes for our viewing pleasure. The very least we can do is provide them with a comfortable, enriching environment that they will be happy in. Too many people think "it's just a fish", when in reality, it's a living creature that deserves to live a good life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No, I would definitely not get goldfish.

Can you keep 2 Goldfish alive in a 40G tank? Sure, they'll stay alive. This doesn't mean that they will have a healthy, enriching environment.

If Ranchu Goldfish were in a pond, they can grow to 18" long. Keeping one in a 40G tank would be akin to letting your dog live his whole life in his crate. Would he stay alive? Maybe. Would it be considered animal abuse? Absolutely.

I'm going to add here that I'm very conscious of our responsibilities as fish owners. We keep live animals in glass boxes for our viewing pleasure. The very least we can do is provide them with a comfortable, enriching environment that they will be happy in. Too many people think "it's just a fish", when in reality, it's a living creature that deserves to live a good life.
Ok I see. And yes I totally way too many people say its "just a fish." And they do deserve a good quality of life
 

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Ok I see. And yes I totally way too many people say its "just a fish." And they do deserve a good quality of life
Your other option here is to go forward with your plan, but talk to your LFS first. Let them know that you want to keep these fish, but you want to trade them in for a smaller model every couple of years. You get to keep the fish you want, the fish store gets to trade young, cheap fish for older, more expensive fish, and the fish get to live healthier lives without being trapped in a small tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Your other option here is to go forward with your plan, but talk to your LFS first. Let them know that you want to keep these fish, but you want to trade them in for a smaller model every couple of years. You get to keep the fish you want, the fish store gets to trade young, cheap fish for older, more expensive fish, and the fish get to live healthier lives without being trapped in a small tank.
Ahhh thats an idea I'll have to talk with them. Thanks!
 

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No, I would definitely not get goldfish.

Can you keep 2 Goldfish alive in a 40G tank? Sure, they'll stay alive. This doesn't mean that they will have a healthy, enriching environment.

If Ranchu Goldfish were in a pond, they can grow to 18" long. Keeping one in a 40G tank would be akin to letting your dog live his whole life in his crate. Would he stay alive? Maybe. Would it be considered animal abuse? Absolutely.

I'm going to add here that I'm very conscious of our responsibilities as fish owners. We keep live animals in glass boxes for our viewing pleasure. The very least we can do is provide them with a comfortable, enriching environment that they will be happy in. Too many people think "it's just a fish", when in reality, it's a living creature that deserves to live a good life.
Sorry, but no ranchu is going to grow to 18”. Even my 10yr old single tail comets in a 2500g pond are not over 10” in body length (we do not count tail fin in the total). Ranchu are the smallest of the fancies and 2 in a 40g would be fine, as far as space is concerned. What you really want to focus on is filtration - high turnover (10x at least with the output diffused for easier swimming) and large amount of media (cannisters vs HOB).
Jenny from Solid Gold is experienced and highly respected in the goldfish world - keep following her advice.
Also, if you want a planted tank, consider going bare bottom for ease of keeping the tank pristine for the goldies, and put tough leaved plants in pots or vases, as goldies will dig and pick at leaves. I’ve had good luck with anubias, crypts, mossballs and crinum, specifically.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sorry, but no ranchu is going to grow to 18”. Even my 10yr old single tail comets in a 2500g pond are not over 10” in body length (we do not count tail fin in the total). Ranchu are the smallest of the fancies and 2 in a 40g would be fine, as far as space is concerned. What you really want to focus on is filtration - high turnover (10x at least with the output diffused for easier swimming) and large amount of media (cannisters vs HOB).
Jenny from Solid Gold is experienced and highly respected in the goldfish world - keep following her advice.
Also, if you want a planted tank, consider going bare bottom for ease of keeping the tank pristine for the goldies, and put tough leaved plants in pots or vases, as goldies will dig and pick at leaves. I’ve had good luck with anubias, crypts, mossballs and crinum, specifically.
Yay ok! I was starting to think I might not be able to keep my dream fish. And I love Jenny I have been watching all of her fish videos! I did get a few plants El Nino fern, anubias, and three moss balls
 

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Yay ok! I was starting to think I might not be able to keep my dream fish. And I love Jenny I have been watching all of her fish videos! I did get a few plants El Nino fern, anubias, and three moss balls
You can still go with a bare bottom with those plants - find a nice piece of smooth driftwood (no sharp or spikey areas) mounted on a slate and tie or glue the fern and anubias to it. Here is a shot of a tank I had a few years ago:

2 potted Crypts, anubias on driftwood on the right along with a wad of floating java fern tied to the rim, and a potted crinum on the left:

1026360
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You can still go with a bare bottom with those plants - find a nice piece of smooth driftwood (no sharp or spikey areas) mounted on a slate and tie or glue the fern and anubias to it. Here is a shot of a tank I had a few years ago:

2 potted Crypts, anubias on driftwood on the right along with a wad of floating java fern tied to the rim, and a potted crinum on the left:

View attachment 1026360
I mounted mine on drift wood but I used a thin layer of carib sea sand, dont really like it though. I thought the sand might add good enrichment for the goldies
 

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Ok thanks that cleared up some of my confusion, and yes ranchu is the fish that got me into fish so if possible thats what I want to keep. What extra steps do you recommend me take. I know the basics on how to care for a fish but thats about it lol.
A lot of new fish guides talk about 10 to 25% water changes once a week. I would consider doing a minimum of 50% and better yet would be 70-80%. Basically as much as you can without making your fish swim weird to stay wet. I'd also recommend getting a python water change system to dramatically help with the water change process. Plants are also helpful but as mentioned goldfish are diggers and will eat some plants so special care is required in keeping them.

What filtration are you using? Some filters require a bit of modification to get the most out of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A lot of new fish guides talk about 10 to 25% water changes once a week. I would consider doing a minimum of 50% and better yet would be 70-80%. Basically as much as you can without making your fish swim weird to stay wet. I'd also recommend getting a python water change system to dramatically help with the water change process. Plants are also helpful but as mentioned goldfish are diggers and will eat some plants so special care is required in keeping them.

What filtration are you using? Some filters require a bit of modification to get the most out of them.
Ok I will do the larger water changes. I have a 20-50g aqua clear filter.
 

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I mounted mine on drift wood but I used a thin layer of carib sea sand, dont really like it though. I thought the sand might add good enrichment for the goldies
Substrate gives them something to do - they like sifting, but yes, keep it thin and vacuum regularly and thoroughly. Take a look at Koko’s Goldfish forum for in depth support:

Kokos Goldfish Forum
 
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