Usually the tds water that crs will breed in will greatly effect neos. If you're planning to use ro water and start with a very low tds. You mentioned that you're going to use only tap, the neos will mostly likely be more sufficient in breeding in tap. The real question is, can you keep crs alive and breed in your tap. If you could, mixing neos with crs is just a myth of perception. Any thing is possible.
Starting a new tank
I want to change my 40B over to a shrimp tank when I finally get my 180g up and running. Im going to be using a sponge filter and i will have ADA aquasoil for a substrate. I'm debating getting crystal shrimp but i will be using tap water and would like them to thrive and breed. I dont have a tds meter yet so I'm not sure what my tap has. This will not be a co2 tank or a fert tank. i may dose excel. Any suggestions or what i should do would be great. I havent kept shrimp since my reef tank 10 years ago.
I like CRS but i wouldnt be opposed to Blue or Red neo's. Can i have a mix of them or is it a species tank? i would also like small neon tetras and maybe an otto or 2 to give the aquarium some more life.
I like CRS but i wouldnt be opposed to Blue or Red neo's. Can i have a mix of them or is it a species tank? i would also like small neon tetras and maybe an otto or 2 to give the aquarium some more life.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Im going to be using a sponge filter and i will have ADA aquasoil for a substrate. I'm debating getting crystal shrimp but i will be using tap water and would like them to thrive and breed.
Unless your tap water has 0 KH, it is not recommended to use tap with buffering soil. Doing so can cause the soil to degrade faster, or in other words, lose it's buffering capacity, thus requiring you to replace it sooner.
It's usually recommended to replace the soil once a year, but have heard of some people that, using remineralized RO, have been able to keep their tanks going for 2-3 years without having to change the soil out.
If you want Crystals and you want them to thrive and breed, don't use tap water.
If you are adamant about using tap water, then find a breeder who has crystals in the parameters your tank will end up being. This might be easier said than done.... (depending on parameters) Most crystal breeders use remineralized RO...
I dont have a tds meter yet so I'm not sure what my tap has. Any suggestions or what i should do would be great.
Get a GH and KH test kit along with the TDS meter. Look into drip acclimation using airline tubing and airline valves. Other items can also come in handy using drip acclimation.
I like CRS but i wouldnt be opposed to Blue or Red neo's. Can i have a mix of them or is it a species tank? i would also like small neon tetras and maybe an otto or 2 to give the aquarium some more life.
True otos will be fine with shrimp but tetras may eat the shrimp and/or baby shrimp. If the tank is heavily planted, the shrimp would have a better chance of surviving. If you want to do a community tank with fish, get a healthy population of shrimp going well before you ever introduce any fish.
Also, although you can keep CRS and Neos together, depending on the tank parameters, one or the other tends to thrive more than the other shrimp. Neos generally prefer higher pH and KH where-as CRS generally do better with lower pH and zero or low KH values. If you go with low grade CRS, then you might have better luck keeping them in parameters closer to Neos.
Although CRS and Neos wont breed together, different colors of Neos can. Breeding different colors of Neos together may or may not result in wild colored offspring. I have heard that if you start out with higher grades of Neos, you have a smaller chance of wild colored offspring. If you cull the lesser desired shrimp, you may be able to keep a "rainbow" colony going. (cull could mean moving them to a cull tank)
Alternatively, some tiger shrimp do fine in Neo parameters. I believe these are usually tangerine tigers and orange eyed blue tigers? Only special note about them is that they generally prefer a slightly higher protein diet than Neos do... so it wouldn't hurt to occasionally feed them frozen blood worms.
Tiger shrimp will breed with CRS, and first gen offspring are generally not very pretty, but multi-gen hybrids do tend to have more coloration and variety than adults...
Unless your tap water has 0 KH, it is not recommended to use tap with buffering soil. Doing so can cause the soil to degrade faster, or in other words, lose it's buffering capacity, thus requiring you to replace it sooner.
It's usually recommended to replace the soil once a year, but have heard of some people that, using remineralized RO, have been able to keep their tanks going for 2-3 years without having to change the soil out.
If you want Crystals and you want them to thrive and breed, don't use tap water.
If you are adamant about using tap water, then find a breeder who has crystals in the parameters your tank will end up being. This might be easier said than done.... (depending on parameters) Most crystal breeders use remineralized RO...
I dont have a tds meter yet so I'm not sure what my tap has. Any suggestions or what i should do would be great.
Get a GH and KH test kit along with the TDS meter. Look into drip acclimation using airline tubing and airline valves. Other items can also come in handy using drip acclimation.
I like CRS but i wouldnt be opposed to Blue or Red neo's. Can i have a mix of them or is it a species tank? i would also like small neon tetras and maybe an otto or 2 to give the aquarium some more life.
True otos will be fine with shrimp but tetras may eat the shrimp and/or baby shrimp. If the tank is heavily planted, the shrimp would have a better chance of surviving. If you want to do a community tank with fish, get a healthy population of shrimp going well before you ever introduce any fish.
Also, although you can keep CRS and Neos together, depending on the tank parameters, one or the other tends to thrive more than the other shrimp. Neos generally prefer higher pH and KH where-as CRS generally do better with lower pH and zero or low KH values. If you go with low grade CRS, then you might have better luck keeping them in parameters closer to Neos.
Although CRS and Neos wont breed together, different colors of Neos can. Breeding different colors of Neos together may or may not result in wild colored offspring. I have heard that if you start out with higher grades of Neos, you have a smaller chance of wild colored offspring. If you cull the lesser desired shrimp, you may be able to keep a "rainbow" colony going. (cull could mean moving them to a cull tank)
Alternatively, some tiger shrimp do fine in Neo parameters. I believe these are usually tangerine tigers and orange eyed blue tigers? Only special note about them is that they generally prefer a slightly higher protein diet than Neos do... so it wouldn't hurt to occasionally feed them frozen blood worms.
Tiger shrimp will breed with CRS, and first gen offspring are generally not very pretty, but multi-gen hybrids do tend to have more coloration and variety than adults...
The big variable is your tap water. I raise CRS in my tap which is 7.6 pH (dropped to 7.4 in tank by driftwood/leaves) with a TDS of 60, 70 after Safe, and tank kept around 160.
As always, the biggest key is stability. I took a gamble on CRS refusing to use anything special like RO + remineralizer, buffering soil, etc., but I think I'm able to keep things more stable that way.
As to mixing in neos, it can be done and have both breed, but it's a pretty fine line that will require a fair amount of work to maintain (even with a nice size 40G tank).
As for fish, neons will eat the babies if they find them. Not a problem once you get a good colony going (unless you want to sell them or something), but just be aware. I don't have any experience with otto cats and shrimp, but I'm told they are safe (I'm still not willing to risk it).
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
As always, the biggest key is stability. I took a gamble on CRS refusing to use anything special like RO + remineralizer, buffering soil, etc., but I think I'm able to keep things more stable that way.
As to mixing in neos, it can be done and have both breed, but it's a pretty fine line that will require a fair amount of work to maintain (even with a nice size 40G tank).
As for fish, neons will eat the babies if they find them. Not a problem once you get a good colony going (unless you want to sell them or something), but just be aware. I don't have any experience with otto cats and shrimp, but I'm told they are safe (I'm still not willing to risk it).
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
I was under the impression that ada amazonia lasted quite a while? I wont be replacing it anytime soon or ever. Also i have no real means of doing RO so thats out of the question i think. Ill test my kh and gh when I get home. My ph is currently 8.1 no buffering (apex meter).
I want the shrimp to thrive so ill wait sometime before adding any neons. The ultimate goal is the get a huge population then to try and get them to breed in my black piranha 180g tank since thats my real planted tank with co2 ferts etc. the black piranha doesnt really do much so adding life to the tank will be nice. Also keeping him fed makes me happy too.
Ill keep fish out of the shrimp tank till the population explodes. I want this to be a low maintenence tank. Im ok with doing water changes as i have to do them on my 180 but wont be doing co2 or ferts.
I want the shrimp to thrive so ill wait sometime before adding any neons. The ultimate goal is the get a huge population then to try and get them to breed in my black piranha 180g tank since thats my real planted tank with co2 ferts etc. the black piranha doesnt really do much so adding life to the tank will be nice. Also keeping him fed makes me happy too.
Ill keep fish out of the shrimp tank till the population explodes. I want this to be a low maintenence tank. Im ok with doing water changes as i have to do them on my 180 but wont be doing co2 or ferts.
RO water can be purchased for 28-50 cents a gallon from stores like Walmart, Smiths, CVS Pharmacy (if they have water dispensers), etc.
Alternatively, you can buy an RO unit for $50 and up off of Amazon. A common one is RO Buddy. From what I hear, it does not require permanent installation in order to use.
ADA soil can last a really long time... if you use remineralized RO with a GH remineralizer. If you dump water in there with a bunch of KH or use a GH and KH remineralizer, it will not last as long as using RO water with a GH remineralizer.
Considering your goals, I'd recommend going with cherry shrimp... cheap and they breed readily. I've heard that Caridinas do not breed as quickly as cherries do, and can potentially be a lot more expensive. Some may even grow slower.
Alternatively, you can buy an RO unit for $50 and up off of Amazon. A common one is RO Buddy. From what I hear, it does not require permanent installation in order to use.
ADA soil can last a really long time... if you use remineralized RO with a GH remineralizer. If you dump water in there with a bunch of KH or use a GH and KH remineralizer, it will not last as long as using RO water with a GH remineralizer.
Considering your goals, I'd recommend going with cherry shrimp... cheap and they breed readily. I've heard that Caridinas do not breed as quickly as cherries do, and can potentially be a lot more expensive. Some may even grow slower.
i have a low KH of around 7 and a gh of 20 :surprise:RO water can be purchased for 28-50 cents a gallon from stores like Walmart, Smiths, CVS Pharmacy (if they have water dispensers), etc.
Alternatively, you can buy an RO unit for $50 and up off of Amazon. A common one is RO Buddy. From what I hear, it does not require permanent installation in order to use.
ADA soil can last a really long time... if you use remineralized RO with a GH remineralizer. If you dump water in there with a bunch of KH or use a GH and KH remineralizer, it will not last as long as using RO water with a GH remineralizer.
Considering your goals, I'd recommend going with cherry shrimp... cheap and they breed readily. I've heard that Caridinas do not breed as quickly as cherries do, and can potentially be a lot more expensive. Some may even grow slower.
gh seems pretty high, but for a ph of 8.1 i guess its standard.
I definitely would not use that with buffering soil or any Caridina shrimp! *Maybe* neos, if you can find a breeder who keeps them in hard water! But I would imagine that many Neo shrimp may have difficulties thriving in that water because it's too hard... (shell might be too hard, causing difficulties for them to molt.... or?)
This basic water parameter guide recommends a max of 1-2 KH for the most common Caridinas - except Tigers. Most read "1", because the test to find out if it's 0 KH or 1 KH is the same. You would need to double the amount of water to find out if it's 0 KH or 1 KH.
https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters
Now, for Tigers, it recommends up to 2-4 KH, for most.
My tap water is 3-4 GH and KH (they usually run the same) with a TDS of ~50. (give or take) I found out the hard way that my tap water is too soft. This, before learning the basic requirements of keeping shrimp.
I bought a cheap but "dirty" remineralizer which works. I'm not crazy about it, because it raises the TDS pretty high!
Lately, I've decided to mix my soft tap with my sisters hard tap. She only lives 10-15 minutes away, however her water comes from an underground aquifer (aka well water) vs my water comes from the river - fed by rain and snow. We both live within walking distance of this river, too...
My sisters water is 10 KH, 19 GH and a TDS of 475.
I mix about 3 1/2 parts soft tap to 1 part hard tap to get desirable water parameters for my shrimp. Using 5 gallons of hard tap water, I can fill a 20 gallon tank up with the desired water parameters, with the rest being soft tap water. (counting substrate and decorations) This is "cleaner", as I'm able to have higher GH but lower TDS in comparison to using the crappy remineralizer. (there are some great shrimp remineralizer products out there though!!!)
I tell you this so that hopefully when you do get shrimp, you will not have to go through the same mistakes as many others who were not aware of the proper water parameters for shrimp, and suffered because of it. (like myself)
This basic water parameter guide recommends a max of 1-2 KH for the most common Caridinas - except Tigers. Most read "1", because the test to find out if it's 0 KH or 1 KH is the same. You would need to double the amount of water to find out if it's 0 KH or 1 KH.
https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters
Now, for Tigers, it recommends up to 2-4 KH, for most.
My tap water is 3-4 GH and KH (they usually run the same) with a TDS of ~50. (give or take) I found out the hard way that my tap water is too soft. This, before learning the basic requirements of keeping shrimp.
I bought a cheap but "dirty" remineralizer which works. I'm not crazy about it, because it raises the TDS pretty high!
Lately, I've decided to mix my soft tap with my sisters hard tap. She only lives 10-15 minutes away, however her water comes from an underground aquifer (aka well water) vs my water comes from the river - fed by rain and snow. We both live within walking distance of this river, too...
My sisters water is 10 KH, 19 GH and a TDS of 475.
I mix about 3 1/2 parts soft tap to 1 part hard tap to get desirable water parameters for my shrimp. Using 5 gallons of hard tap water, I can fill a 20 gallon tank up with the desired water parameters, with the rest being soft tap water. (counting substrate and decorations) This is "cleaner", as I'm able to have higher GH but lower TDS in comparison to using the crappy remineralizer. (there are some great shrimp remineralizer products out there though!!!)
I tell you this so that hopefully when you do get shrimp, you will not have to go through the same mistakes as many others who were not aware of the proper water parameters for shrimp, and suffered because of it. (like myself)
My tap ph is 6.4 and my Ada aquasoil is about 3 years old so I have a right to an opinion here. What I found is that even after the soil breaks down the soil still holds more weight than potting soil or dirt for that comparison. Only the bottom 3rd of the soil is mush. The horizontal middle of the soil is very small grades but the top remains unchanged. It looks as if it just came right out of the bag. I can't say for a higher tap ph though. I would love to see a buffering per ph/kh (how fast will it degrade) number chart for the Ada soil if such exists. All I know is, there's no freakin way I'll put in all that money and time to just replace it after 1 year. Not for an average joe like me. Also "GET" the largest grade available.I was under the impression that ada amazonia lasted quite a while?
so looks like out of the tap my tds is around 550.... looks like im going to have to invest in a RO/DI system :/
I figured it would be high, based on how close your tap is to my sisters.
Yours 20 GH 7 KH
My Sisters 19 GH 10 KH
Now, depending on if you plan to only keep Neo shrimp or Caridina shrimp will depend on whether or not you *truly* need to invest in a remineralizer as well.
If you only go with Neos, and the water is free of copper, lead or rust (or other harmful contaminants), then you could use your tap as a "remineralizer" for RO water. Maybe 4-5 parts RO to 1 part tap? Some tigers may also be fine in the same water.
Other tigers and Caridinas though would require a GH+ only remineralizer with RO water.
I see RO Buddie currently at $67 on Amazon, although slightly cheaper on Ebay. Ebay listings may be damaged or require additional parts?
https://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Life-Reverse-Osmosis-50-Gallon/dp/B00DOG63OY/
Yours 20 GH 7 KH
My Sisters 19 GH 10 KH
Now, depending on if you plan to only keep Neo shrimp or Caridina shrimp will depend on whether or not you *truly* need to invest in a remineralizer as well.
If you only go with Neos, and the water is free of copper, lead or rust (or other harmful contaminants), then you could use your tap as a "remineralizer" for RO water. Maybe 4-5 parts RO to 1 part tap? Some tigers may also be fine in the same water.
Other tigers and Caridinas though would require a GH+ only remineralizer with RO water.
I see RO Buddie currently at $67 on Amazon, although slightly cheaper on Ebay. Ebay listings may be damaged or require additional parts?
https://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Life-Reverse-Osmosis-50-Gallon/dp/B00DOG63OY/
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Rev...d=1481299259&sr=8-3&keywords=ro+system+travel
Pure Water Club's is $3 cheaper with 4 stages. These were really popular back when I started.
Pure Water Club's is $3 cheaper with 4 stages. These were really popular back when I started.
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Rev...d=1481299259&sr=8-3&keywords=ro+system+travel
Pure Water Club's is $3 cheaper with 4 stages. These were really popular back when I started.
https://www.amazon.com/iSpring-RCC7-iSpring-RCC7-5-Stage-Residential-Under-Sink-Reverse-Osmosis-Water-Filter-System-WQA-Gold-Seal-Certified/dp/B003XELTTG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481424173&sr=8-1&keywords=ro+filter
or an ebay 150gpd one, not sure i would like to get one that has a higher gpd so i dont have to wait longer lol
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
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