[mourip]

I have a 60P with a nice population of cherry shrimp in it. They have thrived in the 6 months that I have had the tank up. Their numbers have easily tripled.

I am retiring that tank for a 120P so that everybody has more room and so I can have a large school of tetras. The new tank is about a month old now and well planted with fern, sword, Crypt, Buce and Val.

The water is from the same source as in the other tank, tap water prepped with Prime. Chemistry is about the same now as my 60P. Temp is close. A few weeks ago I brought over biomedia from the 60P to seed the new tank and added bacterial starter. There are a couple of Nerites and numerous "guest" bladder snails, all doing well. These should be keeping the bacteria happy. I have a Purigen in my Oase filter. The tank water is exceedingly clear.

Problem: I have been attempting to slowly add shrimp to the new tank but many have died. Out of a dozen or so only three are still around. When I first put the shrimp in they run laps around the tank, seemingly agitated. Within a day or so they die. There is not a lot of algae yet but certainly a few melting leaves to eat. I drop in a bottom feeder wafer periodically which the shrimp usually enjoy.

I am at a loss the figure out why the shrimp would not have a smooth transition unless some of the hardscape is releasing copper or some other chemical. I admit that, thinking that the water was similar, I did not drip acclimate.

Any thoughts would be welcome...

 

[Wasserpest]

Yes, sounds like some decoration or substrate leaching bad stuff.
If it is well planted and has no livestock other than a few snails I would not suspect ammonia, unless you are using Aquasoil or top soil or some other "active" substrate.

 

[Zoidburg]

If water is similar, you shouldn't be having deaths.

Parameters of both tanks?

Has the 120p ever been treated with meds?

Any difference in substrate?

Does either tank have heaters?

 

[mourip]

If water is similar, you shouldn't be having deaths.

Parameters of both tanks?

Has the 120p ever been treated with meds?

Any difference in substrate?

Does either tank have heaters?

I did a big water change today but will check params again later. PH and ammonia were good yesterday so I am assuming that the rest would fall in line.

No meds. I do use EasyCarb but have done that all along with the other tank.

Both have Fluval Strata and pool sand. The new tank also has some Seachem Flourish.

Both have heaters and are within 2 degrees of each other currently ~76deg

Both have local rocks from the same locations that were soaked in Clorox, scrubbed, rinsed, and the soaked in fresh water with Prime. Larger rocks are mostly round river rocks. The new tank does have some purchased smaller granite and river rocks that were also soaked the same way.

 

[SardinePatheNews]

tds of each tank?

 

[mourip]

tds of each tank?

Using our 6 year old TDS meter that came with our under-sink RO drinking water system.

After water changes of about 50% on both tanks yesterday. PH with CO2 running is in the mid 6's during the day.

Tap water is 180.
Old tank is 280.
New tank is 220.

Pretty hard water but the shrimp are thriving and multiplying in the old tank. Currently I can see three shrimp in the new tank and they are not racing around.

Hopefully it was just a contaminant in the original build that is now getting diluted and also absorbed by the Purigen. I may also try some carbon for a bit.

I really want to move the other inhabitants over soon but for now the shrimp are the test pilots.

 

[SardinePatheNews]

its the difference rather than the total (mine is higher) , +/- 60 is more than enough that I would want to drip them

 

[mourip]

its the difference rather than the total (mine is higher) , +/- 60 is more than enough that I would want to drip them

Thanks. Good tip about the difference.

I did just that this morning. I moved a few shrimp that had gathered in my Oase prefilter and acclimated them for a bit. They did not run laps and now seem to be grazing.

We have all had enough change for one year

 

[Zoidburg]

Fluval Stratum??? As in the stuff that absorbs KH and releases tannins? That you shouldn't use tap water with?


There could be a difference in GH, KH, pH and TDS


Maybe the CO2 is too high?

 

[mourip]

Fluval Stratum??? As in the stuff that absorbs KH and releases tannins? That you shouldn't use tap water with?


There could be a difference in GH, KH, pH and TDS


Maybe the CO2 is too high?

Thanks for the input.

My older 60P has only Stratum and sand. The shrimp are doing really well there. The water is crystal clear as is the water in my new 120P.

I can test for GH and KH tomorrow. See above for Ph and TDS. I probably should have done drip acclimation though.

CO2 Drop checker is barely green.

 

[MJB13]

If the Stratum in the old tank is a few years old in could have lost it's buffering capability, and if the new tank has new Stratum is new it will be buffering it to a greater difference than you might think. I would not use an active substrate with Neos.

 

[mourip]

If the Stratum in the old tank is a few years old in could have lost it's buffering capability, and if the new tank has new Stratum is new it will be buffering it to a greater difference than you might think. I would not use an active substrate with Neos.

Good idea but my 60P is only 6 months old and really is just to the point of reaching a balance. The only reason I am replacing it is to have more space for the inhabitants and for interesting scape.

I have enjoyed it so much that I wanted to be able to have a large school of tetras and both a large open area in front and also plenty of hiding spots in the back.

 

[mourip]

There could be a difference in GH, KH, pH and TDS

Here are some readings after 8 hours running CO2.

TAP:
PH = 7.6
KH = 5
GH = 9
TDS = 180

60P:
PH = 6.6
KH = 3
GH = 9
TDS = 280

120P:
PH = 6.8
KH = 3
GH = 6
TDS = 220

 

[mourip]

Added carbon to filter last night. Another shrimp does not look too good today...

Stumped!

 

[Griznatch]

Whats the TDS in the new tank compared to the old? Neos are pretty tolerant of different water parameters but gradual change is the key.

I've never used clorox on any rocks/woo/hardscape. I'm too paranoid of it somehow releasing back into the water if not cleaned off good enough. I boil all my hardscape and so far no pests have survived.

 

[mourip]

Whats the TDS in the new tank compared to the old? Neos are pretty tolerant of different water parameters but gradual change is the key.

I've never used clorox on any rocks/woo/hardscape. I'm too paranoid of it somehow releasing back into the water if not cleaned off good enough. I boil all my hardscape and so far no pests have survived.

Thanks.

All my rock in the old tank got the same Clorox treatment and a very thorough after-soak with Prime. The new wood was weighted to sink but did not get a pre-soak or boil. They are large pieces. During the first two weeks in the tank there seemed to be very little tannin released.

TDS:
Tap is 180.
Old tank is 280.
New tank is 220.

For my next shrimp "volunteers" I will take more time for the drip acclimation.

 

[Zoidburg]

Alright, to be thorough....

60p - 6 months old
PH = 6.6
KH = 3
GH = 9
TDS = 280
Fluval Stratum
CO2

120P - 1 month old
PH = 6.8
KH = 3
GH = 6
TDS = 220
Fluval Stratum
CO2


Is the 120 a new tank? Or a used tank?

Have you tried NOT running CO2 in the 120?

What bacteria starter did you use?

What are the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates of both tanks? And your tap water, too?

I'm not personally familiar with EasyCarb but may try not dosing it at all?

Do you calibrate the TDS meter at all?

 

[mourip]

Is the 120 a new tank? Or a used tank?

New

Have you tried NOT running CO2 in the 120?

No. I set up the 120 to be basically the same as the 60 in order to have a successful transition for the livestock.

What bacteria starter did you use?

API, plus I moved a bag of biological media over from the 60

What are the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates of both tanks? And your tap water, too?

Will test again but this week the 120 had negligible ammonia and nitrites. Since the shrimp are fine in the 60 it seems likely that it and the tap will test OK.

I'm not personally familiar with EasyCarb but may try not dosing it at all?

It is gluteraldehyde, a source of carbon like Seachem Excel. I am not currently using Easy Carb in either tank. In the past I have used it in the 60P to help with some BBA.

Do you calibrate the TDS meter at all?[/quote]

It is an inexpensive one that does not have that ability.

Thanks.

 

[Zoidburg]

Might be worth getting a new TDS meter that can be calibrated and has temperature controled TDS readings too

Might want to make sure ammonia and nitrites are 0



Still don't see anything in specific still, but might be worth a shot not using CO2 in the new tank just to see how the shrimp do?

 

[mourip]

Here are some readings after 4 hours running CO2 this morning. Last water change for both tanks was 5 days ago ~50%. I am drip acclimating 3 mature neo "volunteers" today to introduce into the 120P.

Nitrates in the 60P were very high a couple of weeks ago. I was overfeeding and had pulled my Pothos and Anthurium out, which were a nitrate sponges. I put them back in and now feed 4 days a week and more moderately. I also have a copper test kit coming to rule that out.

I did not re-test KH/GH/TDS

Today...

TAP:
PH = 7.6
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5ppm
KH = 5
GH = 9
TDS = 180

60P:
PH = 6.6
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 20ppm
KH = 3
GH = 9
TDS = 280

120P:
PH = 6.6
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5ppm
KH = 3
GH = 6
TDS = 220