Setting Up a 20g Long for Crystal Reds

2293 Views 31 Replies 8 Participants Last post by snausage, Nov 12, 2010

forddna

Discussion Starter · Nov 10, 2010

I've kept red cherries before, but never CRS. I would like to set up a tank just for them and see if I can make some babies. No big deal if I can't, though. Here is what I'm thinking of doing. Please advise.

First, I need a recommendation on a filter setup. I know a sponge is necessary on any kind of intake tube. Is there any filter or filtration setup everyone leans towards? I do have a Whisper filter and also an Eclipse hood system, but I am more than open to purchasing something else. I would prefer to put a stock type hood on and replace the bulbs with spiral CFLs, as this will be low tech, low light..just mosses, probably.

Now, I have some small pieces of driftwood perfect for this size tank. I'm thinking of doing a java moss carpet and then tying some java moss to pieces of driftwood. I will be using the old red SMS substrate, because I already have it. Any other plant suggestions?

I will not likely put any fish in there.

This will be two fold. I would like to grow out some and put adults and sub adults in my main tank, and also try to breed and sell here and there. And I just want a dedicated shrimp tank.

Thoughts?

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dxiong5

· #2 · Nov 10, 2010

Sounds like a good plan. Filtration is really a personal preference. I have HMFs on my 20Ls and AC20s on my 10s, and both work fine for low-tech tanks. You generally don't need a lot of chemical filtration, hence most simple setups utilize only a sponge filter for mechanical/biological filtration. Running a canister filter would be great and would really make your water pristine for shrimp; in fact, I've seen videos of folks in Taiwan that run 3 canister filters per shrimp tank (housing Taiwan Bees)! I guess if it's only one tank you could go with a canister, but it just wasn't economical for me to run 6 canister filters on each of my 20Ls.

Do they make 30" hoods with spiral CFLs compatibility? I've never seen one...but if they do, that would work fine for a CRS tank.

Driftwood, moss, and ferns are good. Some folks use active soils (Aquasoil, Plant Grower Bed...) to achieve water parameters ideal for CRS. I've never used SMS so I'm not sure on how it affects water parameters. I see you also have reef tanks (and probably have an RO unit) - you could run RO with a bit of tap or mineral additive to reach the parameters in mind.

Keep us updated on your progress.

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forddna

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 10, 2010

I have pretty hard well water, so I do usually mix a bit of RO into my top off and/or water change water. That's no problem at all for me to do.

Ya know, I don't know about the hood. I just assumed it because I did it with a stock 10g hood. Worse case, I can just use the Eclipse hood/filter system, but it has the 65w PC retrofit already installed. Rather high light for only a 12" tall tank. It was on a 37g Tall before.

msnikkistar

· #4 · Nov 10, 2010

All of Donny's suggestions are on point. And again, I have never used SMS myself, so I do not know what it does. I use a combination of flourite and Azoo's plant bed in my btoe tank, and my custom tank has nothing but ADA AS because I have noticed my CRS prefer that.

As for filtration, I think because you are going very low tech, I think you can get away with a HOB with a sponge filter attached to the intake pipe. Fairly easy. As for me, I have a canister with a sponge over it, as well as 3 sponge filters (1 in each sectioned compartment of my custom tank) to ensure I have very pristine water.

snausage

· #5 · Nov 10, 2010

A good HOB with a sponge on the intake is great. I cut 3 concave ellipses out of the intake sponge (about halfway in) to ensure that the tank still has good flow.

I also recommend you look into the HMF as Donny noted. They're excellent, cheap, provide a huge grazing area, and only need to be cleaned once every 18 months. Check out www.swisstropicals.com for info and supplies.

Moe

· #6 · Nov 10, 2010

I use both sponge filters and power filters in my shrimp tanks.
My tank with my high grades I use a canister filter. You cant go over board in
filteration, IMO. I also use aquasoil in all my tanks, crs love it!

Moe

· #7 · Nov 10, 2010

The HMF are nice, a little pricey though. The reason I lile the smaller air driven sponge filters is the ease of starting a new tank. You can use the aged sponges in the new tank
and its ready in no time for shrimp. You say you want one tank but before you know it you'll have. LOL

snausage

· #8 · Nov 10, 2010

Moe said:
I use both sponge filters and power filters in my shrimp tanks.
My tank with my high grades I use a canister filter. You cant go over board in
filteration, IMO.

I agree that you can't go overboard, but you have to be careful not to create too much flow in a crs tank. When I was reading about the HMF, I came across evidence that too much flow actually reduces bio filtration because the bacteria colony doesn't have enough time to filter the water.

forddna

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 10, 2010

Whoa, that HMF deal is cool as hell. And I have a ton of 3/4" PVC here at my house that I can use, assuming that's a good size for my size tank?? I am sure I will have more questions soon.

Thanks, guys!!

forddna

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 10, 2010 (Edited)

Moe said:
The HMF are nice, a little pricey though. The reason I lile the smaller air driven sponge filters is the ease of starting a new tank. You can use the aged sponges in the new tank
and its ready in no time for shrimp. You say you want one tank but before you know it you'll have. LOL

You know what, I think I have a sponge filter for an airline setup already.

roud:

SMS..I keep forgetting to comment on this. It is totally inert. Here is a pic.

edit...that was not the pic I meant to paste...that's not even my tank..lol Here's the pic.

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snausage

· #11 · Nov 10, 2010

forddna said:
Whoa, that HMF deal is cool as hell.

Thanks, guys!!

Before using the HMF, you should consider the pros and cons.

Pros
1. Perhaps the best bio filter
2. No maintenance (clean once per 18 months)
3. Creates huge grazing area
4. Cheap

Cons
1. No media selection (which makes having 0 nitrates hard)
2. Long cycle time.
3. Takes up tank space.

I use an Aqua Clear powerhead with mine because HMFs supposedly work better with powerheads. Plus, they're quiet.

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forddna

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 10, 2010

What if I'm keeping my bioload strictly shrimp and possibly a couple snails? And keep the tank well planted?

I am still 50/50 on what I want to do about filtration, but I want a clear idea before deciding.

snausage

· #13 · Nov 11, 2010

forddna said:
What if I'm keeping my bioload strictly shrimp and possibly a couple snails? And keep the tank well planted?

I am still 50/50 on what I want to do about filtration, but I want a clear idea before deciding.

Are you asking that if you have a low bioload, can you just use an air pump?

If so, sure, as long as it's powerful enough.

mordalphus

· #14 · Nov 11, 2010

On a 20 gallon, why not use just an air driven sponge filter? If you're not planning on doing anything special, it's the simplest thing. I usually go double on the sponge filter, so if it's rated for 40g, i'd use it on a 20g

forddna

Discussion Starter · #15 · Nov 11, 2010

snausage said:
Are you asking that if you have a low bioload, can you just use an air pump?

If so, sure, as long as it's powerful enough.

No, sorry, I meant about the keeping nitrates <5 with the HMF.

Or I may still do the sponge filter. I can't find what I thought I had here, so maybe I don't have one at all. I'll look online and see what's available.

kifeter

· #16 · Nov 11, 2010

What is the HMF? Im lost :/

dxiong5

· #17 · Nov 11, 2010

kifeter said:
What is the HMF? Im lost :/

Here's an article I wrote over on ShrimpNow.com on the HMF filtration system: http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/265-Hamburger-Matten-Filter-(HMF)

forddna

Discussion Starter · #18 · Nov 11, 2010

Nice article, Donny. Where is Poret available, besides the link on the first page here?

dxiong5

· #19 · Nov 11, 2010

forddna said:
Nice article, Donny. Where is Poret available, besides the link on the first page here?

SwissTropicals and PlecoCaves are two places I know that have them; although it appears PlecoCaves does not carry full sheets anymore.

forddna

Discussion Starter · #20 · Nov 11, 2010

Yeah, I just looked at plecocaves a little while ago and only saw cubes and such.

Question about flow in a CRS tank. How much turnover per hour is a good rate? Having reefs, I have a myriad of small powerheads, and probably have the perfect GPH in the mix somewhere.

Also, when using a powerhead for the HMF setup, how do you direct the flow into the PVC? Or do you not use the PVC piece at all and just use some clear line....perhaps I've answered my own question...

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