Regulator leak? Advice

863 Views 11 Replies 5 Participants Last post by jeffkrol, Jan 11, 2017

elusive77

Discussion Starter · Jan 11, 2017 (Edited by Moderator)

I recently bought a used Victor 250C off of an auction site. They said it had been tested and was working normally. I was hoping that was the case but I wanted to put it through Bettatails leak test just to be sure. The high side tested out fine. It held 800 PSI overnight. When I isolated pressure in the low side, the psi slowly dropped. I checked for and fixed a couple leaks in the post body. When I tested again, the PSI still went down more than it should. I soap tested again but couldn't find any more leaks. So it appears there is an internal leak. I put a plug in the output and charged up the low pressure side again. It dropped some, but not as much as before and it seemed to almost stop when it got to a certain point. Today I tried again with the output plug, but I left the high pressure side charged as well. The PSI is now slowly rising a couple PSI an hour. So I'm not sure what's going on. Can anyone make sense of this? Is it even usable? Or should I just cut my losses and hope for better luck on the next one?

So I left it for 6 hours last night with both stages charged, and the PSI on the low side increased from 62 to 68. So I released the CO2 from the high side again and left it overnight. This morning after sitting for 8 hours the low side pressure dropped from 68 down to 49 PSI. It seems like the leak is between the two stages. Is this really a problem though? How would this type of leak affect the system when in full use? Does anybody have any advice?

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jeffkrol

· #2 · Jan 11, 2017

elusive77 said:
So I left it for 6 hours last night with both stages charged, and the PSI on the low side increased from 62 to 68. So I released the CO2 from the high side again and left it overnight. This morning after sitting for 8 hours the low side pressure dropped from 68 down to 49 PSI. It seems like the leak is between the two stages. Is this really a problem though? How would this type of leak affect the system when in full use? Does anybody have any advice?

Return and try again..

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elusive77

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 11, 2017

jeffkrol said:
Return and try again..

I would like to return it, but I'm not sure they will take it back. I had to convert it to CGA 320, and the original stem was so hard to get off that it got pretty mangled in the process. I was hoping to salvage this one, so I'm not out $40.

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jeffkrol

· #4 · Jan 11, 2017

At the minimum you would be out another $40 for parts...and that is with you doing the (not recommended) work..
Could just be gunk on the low pressure side seat..you might be able to blow it out (full pressure, no restrictions (i.e nothing attached to the output side), vent CO2..)

If it matters much, my first Victor (more than $40 slightly) lasted 4 months before blowing the HP seat..Parts are available and I managed to dis-assemble and find the bad part..Seat is $27-ish
BUT just found another for $40-ish bucks.. that and the next 2 .. no problems.

There are rebuild shops and bet you could get it done for $100 or so...

As to the orig. seller tell them.. Many times if they won't take it back they are likely to give, at least, a partial refund.
At least if they are decent business people. Point is most likely the reg. was defective from the get go..

Ask them if they leak tested for hours..most likely not..

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Riza1990

· #5 · Jan 11, 2017

It's a long shot but try to adjust the amount of soap/water you're using. Some leaks are powerful enough that they don't make bubbles and can be missed. I found and fixed one a couple months back using those tubes of bubble liquid they sell for kids. The thicker consistency helped me catch a massive leak at my high pressure gauge connection that the regular soap/water test failed to show.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

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elusive77

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 11, 2017

jeffkrol said:
At the minimum you would be out another $40 for parts...and that is with you doing the (not recommended) work..
Could just be gunk on the low pressure side seat..you might be able to blow it out (full pressure, no restrictions (i.e nothing attached to the output side), vent CO2..)

If it matters much, my first Victor (more than $40 slightly) lasted 4 months before blowing the HP seat..Parts are available and I managed to dis-assemble and find the bad part..Seat is $27-ish
BUT just found another for $40-ish bucks.. that and the next 2 .. no problems.

There are rebuild shops and bet you could get it done for $100 or so...

As to the orig. seller tell them.. Many times if they won't take it back they are likely to give, at least, a partial refund.
At least if they are decent business people. Point is most likely the reg. was defective from the get go..

Ask them if they leak tested for hours..most likely not..

I guess I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Hopefully I can get at least some of it refunded.

Riza1990 said:
It's a long shot but try to adjust the amount of soap/water you're using. Some leaks are powerful enough that they don't make bubbles and can be missed. I found and fixed one a couple months back using those tubes of bubble liquid they sell for kids. The thicker consistency helped me catch a massive leak at my high pressure gauge connection that the regular soap/water test failed to show.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It really looks like this is an internal leak since with both chambers charged the low pressure side increased. I'm assuming that means that it's leaking in from the high side. And then when the high side pressure is released, it leaks back the other way. But thanks for the tip. I will try that on my next regulator, hopefully with better luck.

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Dman911

· #7 · Jan 11, 2017

jeffkrol said:
At the minimum you would be out another $40 for parts...and that is with you doing the (not recommended) work..
Could just be gunk on the low pressure side seat..you might be able to blow it out (full pressure, no restrictions (i.e nothing attached to the output side), vent CO2..)

If it matters much, my first Victor (more than $40 slightly) lasted 4 months before blowing the HP seat..Parts are available and I managed to dis-assemble and find the bad part..Seat is $27-ish
BUT just found another for $40-ish bucks.. that and the next 2 .. no problems.

There are rebuild shops and bet you could get it done for $100 or so...

As to the orig. seller tell them.. Many times if they won't take it back they are likely to give, at least, a partial refund.
At least if they are decent business people. Point is most likely the reg. was defective from the get go..

Ask them if they leak tested for hours..most likely not..

Jeff this is more for you (because of your knowledge of regulators) than the OP so sorry for derailing but it is relevant. I have successfully re lapped many seats in regulators used in different applications some seats brass some stainless some other alloys and some made of rubber that have replacement parts used in low pressure. Have you ever tried using lapping compound to fix leaking seats in Co2 regulators? If not and you run across one again or a fellow hobbyist who does. A slurry of aluminum oxide polishing powder (I forget the micron but I can find out) if the damage is not to bad will more than likely do the trick. Just something I thought I would throw out there because of the cost of purchase of a new one. I also found on brass seats its usually just that greenish corrosion from sitting around without use that causes these issues and some CLR used on it previous to being put back into service can prevent the little particles from being pushing into the seat causing damage since the brass is soft.

Dan

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jeffkrol

· #8 · Jan 11, 2017 (Edited)

Red part inside was dried and cracked and discolored (bleached like)..No way to repair AFAICT..

Cheap enough to replace.. but then you must seal calibrate ect.. depending on what you did in disassembly..
Getting the 2 big halfs apart is 1/2 the battle..

Oddlty enough the lp seat is different for many gasses.. some expected. What is not expected is that CO2 is different..
Didn't run into that w/ the hp seat for the big Victor.
Most liely failure point:
0740-0019 (for CO2)
sort of generic seal:0740-0004

Could be the diaphragm or any of a few other things..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ogm7seWlw&sig2=I710pmC1cuw53mF6To4ZrQ&cad=rja

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Tvadna

· #9 · Jan 11, 2017

Just out of curiosity.... What was the original adapter? Would be nice to know what gas they were using before you converted it.

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jeffkrol

· #10 · Jan 11, 2017

Just guessing for fun.. most are 02...
cga540..

to the o/p one option is to try another one..same model.. Now you have spare parts..

seriously..

Cheapest 2 stage regulator is $200....

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elusive77

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 11, 2017

Tvadna said:
Just out of curiosity.... What was the original adapter? Would be nice to know what gas they were using before you converted it.

I'm pretty sure it was CGA 540.

jeffkrol said:
Just guessing for fun.. most are 02...
cga540..

to the o/p one option is to try another one..same model.. Now you have spare parts..
seriously..

Cheapest 2 stage regulator is $200....

I could do that. I was able to get a partial refund and they let me keep the regulator. So that is an option. But that model is an older one and I don't know if I want to chance getting a bad one again, even if I do have parts. I really just want one that works. I'm looking at an Airgas Y12-C645D. It looks like it's in great condition. It's just missing the LP gauge. But I can just use the one from the other regulator.

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jeffkrol

· #12 · Jan 11, 2017 (Edited)

Well.. Problem is is the gauge gone because the reg. was trashed and the gauge scavanged for another working one.. or was it dropped and broke..

At this point, and there were some.. there are "body only" regulators out there..generally new and sealed in their bags..You have the gauges.. maybe..

You know the lp gauge could be leaking..

sorry to throw stuff at you..
One way is to dunk it..

pm'd you

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