Red Crystal Shrimp - 1 Gallon Hang on Breeder

5292 Views 25 Replies 9 Participants Last post by scx, May 7, 2014

AquaticLeisure

Discussion Starter · May 4, 2014

So I just got 10 red crystal shrimp.

They are currently housed in a 1 gallon breeder box that hangs on my 55 gallon. I don't have to worry about cycling considering I have an air pump that brings water into the breeder box and then comes out of the overflow (ie circulates my 55 gallon tank water in and out of the breeder box).

Temperatures are a steady 79-80 degrees (basically the temperature of my 55 gallon).

I've added a small layer of eco-complete as the substrate. In addition, two moss balls and just two strands of java moss (the java moss came with the shrimp).

Since my air pump has two air holes, I have another tube going into the breeder tank so that it makes more oxygen. It's just the tube - no air stone at the end of it.

I will be installing CO2 injection in the 55 gallon in about a week (and therefore, CO2 will also flow into the shrimp tank).

Here are my questions:

1) Is it better to have an airstone versus not having an airstone at the end of my air tube? I read somewhere that if the bubbles are too tiny, the brine can get stuck in there. Not sure how that happens, but is it cause for concern?

2) Will CO2 injection be an issue for the shrimp?

3) I currently have algae wafers that I used to feed my pleco (now gone). I assume the shrimp will eat these? Given I only have 10 very tiny red crystal shrimp, how much of the wafer should I be feeding them? I left one over night and it looked like they barely touched it (and it got all mushy). I also have flake food and bloodworms. Do they eat that as well?

4) Do I need more plants in the breeder tank?

5) Am I missing anything else? I want to create the most optimal setting so that they can make lots of baby shrimp. Eventually, when the shrimp get big enough (and I have many babies), I'll be transporting some of them into my main tank. However, I have a pair of blue rams that they'll have to evade...

Thanks!

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bostoneric

· #2 · May 4, 2014

temps are too high.

1. air stone for sure is a good idea.
2. how much do you plan on injecting?
3. for 10 shrimp, maybe a small crumb of a wafer. they'll also eat bloodworms.
4. no plants arent really that important in shrimp tanks.
5. shrimp and fish dont mix. especially blue rams who are hunters and will enjoy the new snack you provided.

read the advice thread for noobie's
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176557

Julianzh

· #3 · May 5, 2014

Ph, Gh, kh, and tds are also important.

AquaticLeisure

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 5, 2014

Okay - so I've turned off my heater (it was broken and turning on at 81 degrees). The tank is now at the ambient room temperature (about 74 degrees) - I live in Northern California, so temperature will be pretty mild (my new heater comes in about a week).

I understand 74 degrees is good for RCS. However, I'm now worried about my Blue Rams which I've read prefer temps in the 80s. I'm not too concerned about them breeding though... although, will they die in these low temps?

Also, a couple of shrimp seem to be hanging out by the grate where the water overflows into the main tank. None have slipped through, but any reason why they would be hanging out there?

0live

· #5 · May 5, 2014

You may have made a mistake in your stocking plans. Those Rams will LOVE the company of the shrimp, mostly because they will make for crunchy dinner guests. Needless to say, they will probably not last long.

ctaylor3737

· #6 · May 5, 2014

They may do alright in the breeder box but not for long term. Many keep them for selective breeding but not to house shrimp. They will be at the mercy of the tank and changing conditions. Also it is unlikely that the box was cycled which means there is no biofilm which the shrimp eat. This can also lead to health problems, sure theyll eat what you put in but bio film will help them alot more. Best advice to set up a tank for them, get a small one and fully cycle it. Low tech, no co2, no heater and set the tank up to what they need. They need soft water and alot more care.

bostoneric

· #7 · May 5, 2014

ctaylor3737 said:
Best advice to set up a tank for them, get a small one and fully cycle it. Low tech, no co2, no heater and set the tank up to what they need. They need soft water and alot more care.

:thumbsup:

wicca27

· #8 · May 5, 2014

ok what shrimp do you have? do you have crs (crystal red shrimp, red and white bands) or rcs ( red cherry shrimp, all red)? the 2 are way different in the parameters. and we need to know your parameters as well the be able to help, need the gh, kh, ph, tds, ammo , nitrite nitate

AquaticLeisure

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 5, 2014

They are Red Crystal Shrimp. Since my main tank is cycled, doesn't that mean the breeder box is cycled too since it's pumping in and out the same water? I also put in the moss balls that were sitting in my main tank in the breeder box...

Why won't the shrimp fare well in the breeder box as a more permanent solution? Do they need more space? They are tiny... my water quality is also impeccable and way over-filtered (70 gallon HOB Filter and eHeim 2217 cannister filter with mini-sponge filter inside breeder tank).

I've already purchased an air stone and plan to set timers on my lighting / CO2 so that they are only on together. I also will probably be setting very low CO2. Temperatures will be at 75.

0live

· #10 · May 5, 2014

AquaticLeisure said:
I understand 74 degrees is good for RCS. However, I'm now worried about my Blue Rams which I've read prefer temps in the 80s. I'm not too concerned about them breeding though... although, will they die in these low temps?

AquaticLeisure said:
Why won't the shrimp fare well in the breeder box as a more permanent solution? Do they need more space? They are tiny... my water quality is also impeccable and way over-filtered (70 gallon HOB Filter and eHeim 2217 cannister filter with mini-sponge filter inside breeder tank).

75˚ is on the high side of where I would keep CRS. Is there enough cover for them to survive in the main tank?

Do you know your KH/GH?

Also, having a cycled tank is only part of it... CRS (as well as other shrimp) graze on micro-bacteria that grows on surfaces inside the tank. If that breeder hasn't been filled with water for a month or so I'd say it's not going to provide a natural food source for those shrimpos.

scx

· #11 · May 5, 2014

Rcs= red cherry shrimp. Crs= crystal red shrimp

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Tihsho

· #12 · May 5, 2014

AquaticLeisure said:
They are Red Crystal Shrimp. Since my main tank is cycled, doesn't that mean the breeder box is cycled too since it's pumping in and out the same water? I also put in the moss balls that were sitting in my main tank in the breeder box...

Why won't the shrimp fare well in the breeder box as a more permanent solution? Do they need more space? They are tiny... my water quality is also impeccable and way over-filtered (70 gallon HOB Filter and eHeim 2217 cannister filter with mini-sponge filter inside breeder tank).

I've already purchased an air stone and plan to set timers on my lighting / CO2 so that they are only on together. I also will probably be setting very low CO2. Temperatures will be at 75.

What CTaylor was getting at is the substrate isn't cycled. The water flowing through the box is, but the buildup and foundation of the bio film does not exist on the substrate as it is in the process of starting/growing. The moss balls should help for sure though.

I'd be concerned about adding too much air to the breeder box:

1 - It will out gas CO2 in your aquarium as this water is being aerated. More lines from an air pump (plus an air stone) will add oxygen to the water to counteract the CO2 saturation. Also, since the breeder box is acting like a HOB filter, as in the water is cascading out back into the tank, it is adding significant surface agitation reducing CO2 levels. This in turn would mean you'd need to run your CO2 at a higher rate to keep the water saturated, which in my eyes is a waste.

2 - Tons of flow through these boxes will cause the fry to be pushed out into the main tank. As I don't remember there being any mesh stopping the output of most of these HOB breeders, the fry would just be born to be snacks of the main tank.

Back to what I was saying you will be fighting your CO2. If you're going with DIY you will need a couple bottles running to compensate for the current aeration/surface agitation. If you're going injected, you will have to run at a higher bubbles per second.

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bostoneric

· #13 · May 5, 2014

AquaticLeisure said:
my water quality is also impeccable and way over-filtered (70 gallon HOB Filter and eHeim 2217 cannister filter with mini-sponge filter inside breeder tank)

whats impeccable to you?

and I wouldnt say a single 2217 and HOB is way over filtered for a 70G.
I have more filtration than that on a 17G.

what are you water parameters? we know very little about your tank other than its too hot, has fish, has CO2 and you plan on keeping in a breeder box.

like others have recommended get a small tank for your shrimp. much better solution.
read the advice thread for noobie's
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=176557

sbarbee54

· #14 · May 5, 2014

I agree with bostoneric, that is not way over filtered.... On all shrimp tanks I run a 2215 a large sponge filter and a hob. And I consider that good filtration. Heck on my 55 I run a sump with 1100gph pumps and a eheim 2217 a 110 hob and a large 110g sponge.

Get a second tank, as suggested above. Either you wanted a planted tank with fish or a shrimp tank with some plants and no fish. So do both and enjoy the greatness of both

wicca27

· #15 · May 5, 2014

the reason i was asking for parameters is because fish and shrimp need different things. crs need low ph. ph of 6-6.7 most of the time, low gh and low kh where as fish cant have higher ph gh and kh. tds is also important because if its to far off can cause molt issue with shrimp. temp is also a prob most crs need lower temp as well i see most of the time temps no higher than 72.

AquaticLeisure

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 5, 2014

ph is 6.7. zero nitrites/ammonia. it's a 55 gallon - not a 70gallon. I understand that fish and shrimp have different parameters. In all fairness, all I had was a large school of ghost catfish who are probably the most passive fish ever - and have no interest in shrimp. After I had ordered the crystal red shrimp, my cousin gifted me two blue rams for my birthday the other day - throwing all my meticulous planning through the window.

Ideally, a second tank is in motion, but it's not something I exactly budgeted for - and I don't have the space (I'd rather avoid small tanks given they are more "sensitive"). Not to mention, it won't be some time before it is up and running. Until then, I want to create the most ideal scenario possible before transferring to new cycled tank.

However, even with a second tank, will temperature still be an issue? I turned off the heater last night and the tank has been at 73 degrees pretty much all night. The temperature in my apartment ranges from 72 - 75 degrees (according to a digital thermometer). I was a bit concerned about the change in temperature (had to turn off my heater), but I figured it was better to turn off a faulty heater than to risk it getting beyond 81 degrees.

I'll move some of the eco-complete gravel from my big tank into the breeder box. That should help with the cycled substrate and give them more to eat (they seem to ignore the algae wafers/blood worms - although will busily go through the moss/gravel).

I keep the valves on the air pretty tight - I know CRS do not like too much agitation, so I limit it. The second air tube makes one bubble a second. Is there such thing as too much oxygen? I understand the part of limiting agitation for shrimp/fry.

The CO2 will be in-line injected into the 55gallon. I don't have any planted plants in the breeder (just moss balls + java moss), so I'm not concerned about there being enough CO2 in there. Unless some level of CO2 is healthy for shrimp.

I've thoroughly read the advice thread. I have a TDS meter, a GH/KH test kit on its way, and a mini-sponge filter (that I'll hook up onto the secondary air tube) on its way.

Let me know if there's anything else you think I may have missed. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

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sbarbee54

· #17 · May 5, 2014

You should really read through the sticky on this section.

Tihsho

· #18 · May 6, 2014

AquaticLeisure said:
The CO2 will be in-line injected into the 55gallon. I don't have any planted plants in the breeder (just moss balls + java moss), so I'm not concerned about there being enough CO2 in there. Unless some level of CO2 is healthy for shrimp.

I'm not sure you get how CO2 absorption works. As this HOB breeder is part of the 55 gallon setup, this means any/all added circulation effects the CO2 levels in the tank. HOB's provide more agitation due to the waterfall style output, be it a filter or a breeder box it's all the same. The difference is the GPH from a water pump/venturi and an air pump.

ctaylor3737

· #19 · May 6, 2014

AquaticLeisure said:
ph is 6.7. zero nitrites/ammonia. it's a 55 gallon - not a 70gallon. I understand that fish and shrimp have different parameters. In all fairness, all I had was a large school of ghost catfish who are probably the most passive fish ever - and have no interest in shrimp. After I had ordered the crystal red shrimp, my cousin gifted me two blue rams for my birthday the other day - throwing all my meticulous planning through the window.

Ideally, a second tank is in motion, but it's not something I exactly budgeted for - and I don't have the space (I'd rather avoid small tanks given they are more "sensitive"). Not to mention, it won't be some time before it is up and running. Until then, I want to create the most ideal scenario possible before transferring to new cycled tank.

However, even with a second tank, will temperature still be an issue? I turned off the heater last night and the tank has been at 73 degrees pretty much all night. The temperature in my apartment ranges from 72 - 75 degrees (according to a digital thermometer). I was a bit concerned about the change in temperature (had to turn off my heater), but I figured it was better to turn off a faulty heater than to risk it getting beyond 81 degrees.

I'll move some of the eco-complete gravel from my big tank into the breeder box. That should help with the cycled substrate and give them more to eat (they seem to ignore the algae wafers/blood worms - although will busily go through the moss/gravel).

I keep the valves on the air pretty tight - I know CRS do not like too much agitation, so I limit it. The second air tube makes one bubble a second. Is there such thing as too much oxygen? I understand the part of limiting agitation for shrimp/fry.

The CO2 will be in-line injected into the 55gallon. I don't have any planted plants in the breeder (just moss balls + java moss), so I'm not concerned about there being enough CO2 in there. Unless some level of CO2 is healthy for shrimp.

I've thoroughly read the advice thread. I have a TDS meter, a GH/KH test kit on its way, and a mini-sponge filter (that I'll hook up onto the secondary air tube) on its way.

Let me know if there's anything else you think I may have missed. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

Don't feel like everyone is bashing you. Its just many have seen the scenario play out that your talking about, either done it themselves or watched others kill Thier livestock. Everyone that comment keep and breed shrimp! Little tanks are easy and cheap. Can setup a 10g with sponge filters for less than 20$. Or if your good get a 10g used for 2-3$ and a 3$ filter play sand and boom shrimp tank.

-Chris

scx

· #20 · May 6, 2014

AquaticLeisure said:
Here are my questions:

1) Is it better to have an airstone versus not having an airstone at the end of my air tube? I read somewhere that if the bubbles are too tiny, the brine can get stuck in there. Not sure how that happens, but is it cause for concern?

You should have an airstone for breeder tank. It will counter some of your co2 efforts but not much.

2) Will CO2 injection be an issue for the shrimp? Unlikely, unless you don't run a solenoid and leave it on all the time.

3) I currently have algae wafers that I used to feed my pleco (now gone). I assume the shrimp will eat these? Given I only have 10 very tiny red crystal shrimp, how much of the wafer should I be feeding them?

They will eat wafers once they get used to it. They seem to prefer biofilm on mosses/plants or shrimp food.

4) Do I need more plants in the breeder tank?

No, plants would be nice and help them breed though.

5) Am I missing anything else? I want to create the most optimal setting so that they can make lots of baby shrimp. Eventually, when the shrimp get big enough (and I have many babies), I'll be transporting some of them into my main tank. However, I have a pair of blue rams that they'll have to evade...

Yes you're missing a 10/20 gallon tank. If you want your crs, to breed that's what you will need. They are more sensitive to water parameters and stress easily. You should keep it low tech with just some mosses. The way you're doing it now will take a year before you'll have enough to sacrafice as food. Good luck!

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