Question of filter/pumps waterflow and circulation

2139 Views 8 Replies 3 Participants Last post by PlantedRich, Oct 28, 2016

torque6

Discussion Starter · Oct 28, 2016

Hello all, I have a question on water flow and circulation.
I had an ADA 90-P, 3FT, 36"x18"x18", 185L or 48Gallon and a ADA outlet VV2, 12/16mm.

I will be keeping about 20 cardinal tetras with a convex scape in the middle, mainly driftwood, java fern and anubias. Aquascape should look something like this. Tank is low light with c02 injection.

My plan is to get a eheim 2215 with either a small powerhead or a Hydor Koralia Nano 240 (due to good reviews such as spread gentle flow). Please see the following.

Which is better? or should i go for a better filter like eheim 2217 though I think my current outlet is 12/16mm only.

Any advise is appreciated. Thank you.

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klibs

· #2 · Oct 28, 2016

option 2 would probably be perfect.

I try to do the same 'circular' flow pattern on my 75g using 2x koralia 240s and they work great.

Upgrading to a 2217 will not give you much more flow (at all). I run 2 on the 75g and they really don't do much in terms of moving water.

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torque6

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 28, 2016

klibs said:
option 2 would probably be perfect.

I try to do the same 'circular' flow pattern on my 75g using 2x koralia 240s and they work great.

Upgrading to a 2217 will not give you much more flow (at all). I run 2 on the 75g and they really don't do much in terms of moving water.

Thanks Klib, my worry is whether the outflow from the lily pipe will clash with the oncoming flow from the hydor 240? Will it create some kind of vortex in the middle?

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PlantedRich

· #4 · Oct 28, 2016

I feel this is going to take some watching and adapt as needed. There is really no way to say what type of extra ripples and movement the plants will create. As water moves, there are all kinds of side currents going on that will not be obvious on a drawing. The idea of uniform water circulation is not one that works for me. As plants grow and change, the water movement changes.
For me, I would move the filter, in and out, away from each other to make the filtering more effective. When placed close together some of the output just goes straight to the input to be re-filtered while other water may need it more?

Just my thoughts but I normally have to watch a tank for a bit to see what it is doing.

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klibs

· #5 · Oct 28, 2016

Rich is spot on here. You will have to keep an eye on it and adapt as needed. Option 2 seems like it would work out fine theoretically but like Rich said there's no way to tell until you give it a shot. I personally have changed my powerhead selection/setup many times in my tank for various reasons. Really hard to nail it the first time.

I also agree with Rich that you should position the filter intake far away from the output.

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torque6

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 28, 2016

PlantedRich said:
I feel this is going to take some watching and adapt as needed. There is really no way to say what type of extra ripples and movement the plants will create. As water moves, there are all kinds of side currents going on that will not be obvious on a drawing. The idea of uniform water circulation is not one that works for me. As plants grow and change, the water movement changes.
For me, I would move the filter, in and out, away from each other to make the filtering more effective. When placed close together some of the output just goes straight to the input to be re-filtered while other water may need it more?

Just my thoughts but I normally have to watch a tank for a bit to see what it is doing.

Oh, so my in and out flows are too close? should I put them on the opposite sides? As the java ferns may not grow too dense in the initial startup, do i hold back my purchase for the powerheads/wave maker first?

Just wondering on the Eheim 2215 as well, as there are some post indicating that it might not be suitable for a 48gallon tank. I do like my tank to be gentle though but with sufficient filtration.

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PlantedRich

· #7 · Oct 28, 2016

Several different thoughts on how much flow is enough and how to get that flow. I believe most do feel it better to let the water flow as far as practical before going back to the filter. Just seems like it would actually get more of the "dirtier" water that way.
But how much filter is a separate item than how much flow. We do know the filter does create flow but I judge the filter sizing more on the expected load. If I had dirty fish like some that dig or are messy eaters (goldfish, Oscars, etc.? )I go for larger filters so that they can move more water through the media as well as hold more media. That gives me better water appearance due to more frequent straining of the small bits and more bacteria to do the bio processing of ammonia. More of these are never harmful, though. Usually just larger and cost more!
But when I want more water movement/flow I like to go with small powerheads or pumps. One is they are far cheaper and much less work to keep running well. But they also can be moved and changed or hidden much easier than another filter. I really like the Koralia nano for it's small size and good flow but not so much that I get the substrate blown out in one spot. Lots of small pushing rather than a single large push? I also like the mounts on them with the suction cup with magnet inside. It seems to be the only one that will stay where I put it for very long. Something about the fan or cage makes them keep working better than some when a leaf gets sucked in.
I like leaving as many options as possible because all my tanks keep changing. Things grow or they fail but it always seems to be just a bit different so I like flexible things.

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torque6

Discussion Starter · #8 · Oct 28, 2016

klibs said:
Rich is spot on here. You will have to keep an eye on it and adapt as needed. Option 2 seems like it would work out fine theoretically but like Rich said there's no way to tell until you give it a shot. I personally have changed my powerhead selection/setup many times in my tank for various reasons. Really hard to nail it the first time.

I also agree with Rich that you should position the filter intake far away from the output.

Ya, Klibs, went through your 75G and noticed that you did move your powerhead quite bit. Also noted that you have a convex type aquascape as well.

PlantedRich said:
Several different thoughts on how much flow is enough and how to get that flow. I believe most do feel it better to let the water flow as far as practical before going back to the filter. Just seems like it would actually get more of the "dirtier" water that way.
But how much filter is a separate item than how much flow. We do know the filter does create flow but I judge the filter sizing more on the expected load. If I had dirty fish like some that dig or are messy eaters (goldfish, Oscars, etc.? )I go for larger filters so that they can move more water through the media as well as hold more media. That gives me better water appearance due to more frequent straining of the small bits and more bacteria to do the bio processing of ammonia. More of these are never harmful, though. Usually just larger and cost more!
But when I want more water movement/flow I like to go with small powerheads or pumps. One is they are far cheaper and much less work to keep running well. But they also can be moved and changed or hidden much easier than another filter. I really like the Koralia nano for it's small size and good flow but not so much that I get the substrate blown out in one spot. Lots of small pushing rather than a single large push? I also like the mounts on them with the suction cup with magnet inside. It seems to be the only one that will stay where I put it for very long. Something about the fan or cage makes them keep working better than some when a leaf gets sucked in.
I like leaving as many options as possible because all my tanks keep changing. Things grow or they fail but it always seems to be just a bit different so I like flexible things.

Koralia nano is pretty good, but for a 48G, I am not sure if it will get too strong since it's 920L/H. Thanks for sharing the "substrate blown out in 1 spot". It is a great idea to have a few small power heads to circulate water flow, but I am kinda afraid of the heat being given out. I wonder if those 9w 600L/H runs hot? Maybe I should just have 2 sets of 200L/H powerheads running at 5w.

I intend to run a covered tank to minimize evaporation (it gets really humid here in Singapore and mold grows easily).

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PlantedRich

· #9 · Oct 28, 2016 (Edited)

You are correct to think about the added heat, even from small motors. We often miss the point that a small heater like 9 watts running 24-7 is pretty much the same amount of heat as a 50watt heater running four hours. There is some that goes to turning the fan but much of it winds up as heat.
I often do have to fight heat building up in tanks and one of those factors is the filters setting under the stand. One of the small points that I missed on the new SunSun filter is the amount of heat it produces. It doesn't seem like 37 watt is all that much when compared to other filter using 17 but when it does it all day and night, I now need to run a fan to keep the tank temperature from creeping up past 80 degrees!
The heating question often comes up when we discuss heater sizing. I run much lower wattage heaters than the standard recommendation because I see my tanks need far less.
Covers do reduce evaporation but on the other hand the evaporation also cools the tank so it takes a bit too figure which end is the larger problem!

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