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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,

I have an ADA malaya aquasoil, water change on peat moss + RO water change, oak and almond leaf.

My problem is the pH dont want down under 5,5...my tank size is 55G

I want a pH between 4 and 5.

Do i need a pH controller or something natural can reach these value ?

Thank
 

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Hi everyone,

I have an ADA malaya aquasoil, water change on peat moss + RO water change, oak and almond leaf.

My problem is the pH dont want down under 5,5...my tank size is 55G

I want a pH between 4 and 5.

Do i need a pH controller or something natural can reach these value ?

Thank
question.. Why???
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I want breed nannaraca adoketa, my first spawn egg was eaten all moisture and water need to be under 5 and over 4 to get a free swim.
 

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Store chemicals are a waste of money on this. I don't think peat will bring it down that much.
I use RO water to regulate this. Adding 20% brings it down by 1...from 8 to 6.8 in my tank. I only change water at 20% so it took me 5 water changes for it to level out.
If you do 50% water changes it will take about three water changes.
You must use this formula to change it or you will think it is not workng enough and
add too much the next water change. I don't know what the Ph is from the tap so
I can't suggest a percent to start with. But there is a product that you need to use with it if you do more than 40% RO water. Ask what is is on the invert section.
But all RO water has no minerals and they need to be added back for fish/shrimp.
But if you are only using fish that live in 4 PH then you might not need it.
You will nee to check this with people who have those fish in the fish section.
 

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You can do 100% RO and it won't get you down that low. RO water is usually neutral or pretty close. Mine usually rest at 6.8. You may be able to take 100% and lower with a ph down product, but not sure if they will get you that low. You would also need to re-mineralize or add a gh booster type product. A ph of 6 should be easy.
 

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Do creatures, other than bacteria, actually live in water that low in pH? It is really low!! Low enough that some of the things we count on in aquariums might not act normally, like nitrifying bacteria, for example.
 

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I want breed nannaraca adoketa, my first spawn egg was eaten all moisture and water need to be under 5 and over 4 to get a free swim.
Add vinegar or coffee.........

Coffee has a pH of about 5..
 

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I would use pure RO.
Pinch of GH booster (GH 1 degree or less). Just enough to meet the mineral needs of the fish.
zero degrees of KH. No carbonates. Does your substrate remove KH?
Filter through peat, oak leaves, alder cones, Indian Almond or similar materials.
Decor in the tank: Driftwood, fallen leaves.
Substrate: Peat moss.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank everyone for answer.

My tap water is 7, kh and gh very very soft. I have replenish stuff to use with RO.

The peat moss, i used it for my water change 1 bucket of 7G + 1 bucket of 5G of RO water but the water dont drop under 5,5.

Peat Moss of substrate ? How, because it float...
 

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Adding vinegar seems to be the cheapest, safest, and most controlled / repeatable way to get that low.

v3
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Vinegar in aquarium ? At 100$ for two fish i dont want do something wrong.

Ph controller with injection CO2 is safe for this pH?
 

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Been a while since I used a controller but most will only get you to 5.5. Don't think that is the way you want to get that low anyway.
 

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Before you get to 5 with co2, the 2 $100 fish will be long dead.

Low pH is acid. That's just science. Can't change it, can't ignore it, can't get away from it.

If you want acid, you use acid. I do not know of any other way.

What that does to your fish, your tank, your bacteria is another matter.

v3
 

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Vinegar in aquarium ? At 100$ for two fish i dont want do something wrong.

Ph controller with injection CO2 is safe for this pH?

Go back to basics.. see why:
Freshwater habitats

Low gradient rivers and streams run through sedimentary soils formed mainly by podsols subjected to seasonal flooding. The Rio Negro’s water is extremely poor in mineral content, with conductivity as low as 8 µS, and is extremely acidic, with pH’s ranging from 2.9 to 4.2. The largest blackwater river in the world,
While the name Rio Negro means Black River, its waters aren't exactly black; they are similar in color to strong tea. The dark color comes from humic acid from incomplete breakdown of phenol-containing vegetation from sandy clearings.
I know what I'd do.. I'd write to this person, or do an extensive research search..
since it is his "job" to study acid loving fish.. he should know how to keep them.. you would think..
http://home.sandiego.edu/~gonzalez/index_files/Page542.html



Contact:

Shiley Center for Science & Technology Building, Rm 483

Phone: 619.260.4077

Fax: 619.260.6804

E-mail: [email protected]


my gut instinct was to use Humic acid.. butt oddly that seems to increase pH... thus finding an expert..
 

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http://www.acuteangling.com/Blackwater/peacock bass pH tolerance.html

Here they used sulfuric acid......... ;)

THAT said.. keep this in mind;
The pH tolerance experiment of this study, using natural blackwater and natural freshwater demonstrates that fishes' ability to tolerate low pH and survive longer, is significantly increased in blackwater and is consistent with the cited studies. Similarly, experimentation with a variety of Rio Negro species by Gonzalez (2002), Wood et al (2003) and Wilson (1999), all of whom examined Na+ influx and efflux in the presence of low pH, has shown that these processes were less affected in natural blackwater than in an artificially prepared medium made with distilled water and added equal ion concentrations, but no DOM (used as an equivalent to natural freshwater).
My take.. using RO water and acidifying it is a bad idea in comparison to using natural "acid" water w/ "dissolved organic matter" component.... Your in Canada right?
Go collect some bog water... ;)
 

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I found this "Osmunda fiber" this thing can reach pH 4.5-5 with tanning.

According to this website http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/osmunda-fiber

Where to get it ?
Orchid growers, horticultural supplies.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmundastrum_cinnamomeum at least it was

harvest your own....
back to the bogs.. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmundastrum_cinnamomeum

As to..
"fairly common"
I appear outdated.. it is nowhere I used to see it....
 

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Peat moss does not float.
It is light, so any disturbance to the substrate will make it drift in the water and then it settles out on the bottom again.

Since peat moss is so easily available give it a try!

Pure RO in a bucket. Test to be sure it really does not have anything in it. All the hobby level test kits will show nothing. pH might test anywhere from 6-7 or so. TDS ought to be in the single digits.
Small filter, any style.
Nylon stocking of peat moss in the filter. By running the water through the peat moss you are getting the maximum results the fastest.

By using peat moss as a substrate you will get a gradual release of the organic acids into the tank.

Peat moss is a good source of the organic acids these fish need. Replicates the original source of the black water- fallen leaves etc.

Oak leaves will do the same thing- drop the pH of the water by adding organic acids.

As for what this will do to the microorganisms in the tank...
The nitrifying bacteria will not survive. They thrive in hard, alkaline water, and barely hang in there when the pH is in the 6s.
At that pH, the ammonia will all be in the form of ammonium. Still, I would use something that is NOT ion exchange to remove ammonia.
Perhaps some of the plants that specialize in that sort of water, and pretty much demand it when they are kept in tanks.
 
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