The Planted Tank Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,211 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this question was asked several times already but I couldn't find a clear answer to my question. I am back from saltwater and after some thinking I decided to have nee tank built with an overflow. I initially thought about connecting eheim canister filter to a durso pipe but I read there may be air trapped In canister stopping the flow. I am going to have an ato controller on the tank but still would like to have a fail-proof system. So back to a drawing board and I thought of coming back to using a sump. Question is: how much of an outgassing will I face by using a sump? I don't mind if I have to up my bubble count slightly but will it still supply enough co2 for my plants? The tank will be around 90g and I am not planning to seal the dry portion. I also would like to use an either cerges or gregg style reactor? What do you think about that idea?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
I recently implemented a 30g sump for a 200g. The tank is in the living room and the sump is in the utility closet in the basement. I have a experimental bubble column to absorb CO2 in the water described here.

I was not able to properly determine CO2 loss from the sump but to reduce splashing (and outgassing) on the (3/4") return line I dip the line below the level of water in the sump. I also tweaked the overflow on my tanks to reduce the amount of air sucked in the line. Currently running 3 bps to keep my drop checker light green.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Co2 is cheap. And co2 loss with a sump is negligible in my opinion. Since you are running a reactor you should have no issues. I run a sump and co2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,439 Posts
Well if you wanted, you could always just add a small pump into your sump and have an inline diffuser hook up to it, and have that run into your aquarium.I have not see a thread on it honestly, just an idea that popped into my head while I was planning my 180 gallon aquarium. Basically you will just get a water pump like this:



and place that inside your sump in the water, then attach a length of tubing that will reach from your sump to the inside of your aquarium. Then you want to attach some sort of inlet sprayer on the end of the hose that will be going into the aquarium, this will help hold the tube inside the aquarium and also help mix the water, there all kinds of replacement sprayers out there that you can buy, or you can make one out of PVC pipe with ease, just remember if you make one out of pvc pipe try and avoid 90 degree turns, this will greatly reduce the output flow of your pump, but if the pump is too strong add a few elbows or you can add a ball valve to adjust the flow manually.





Then somewhere in the tube going from the pump to your aquarium you will make a cut and add your inline diffuser. The most popular one if from GLA.



Then simply hook your co2 hose up to your inline diffuser and turn the system on. I have read online that, that diffuser can make some noise, but if you fill it with water, it will quite it down a lot. I hope this helps, like I said this it just an idea I have had, I haven't seen anyone else use something like this before, maybe it will catch on and be a good idea for injection in sump aquariums! If this is still kind of unclear I can draw something up and post it but be warned!! I am not an artist by no means, nor do I claim to be lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
I have a 20g sump on a 65 gal aquarium. For a while I was running a bubble count well beyond what I could count, my guess is ~15bps or so, and was pushing the drop checker lime green to yellow. I have since turned it down quite a bit and am around 8ish bps and am getting solid green throughout the photo period.

I was not able to determine any PH difference between the sump chamber that the return pump is in and the main tank.

At the higher rate of flow I was burning through 5# of CO2 every 4ish weeks. I'm only 2 weeks into the adjustment so can't say consumption after.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Well if you wanted, you could always just add a small pump into your sump and have an inline diffuser hook up to it, and have that run into your aquarium.I have not see a thread on it honestly, just an idea that popped into my head while I was planning my 180 gallon aquarium. Basically you will just get a water pump like this:
and place that inside your sump in the water, then attach a length of tubing that will reach from your sump to the inside of your aquarium. Then you want to attach some sort of inlet sprayer on the end of the hose that will be going into the aquarium, this will help hold the tube inside the aquarium and also help mix the water, there all kinds of replacement sprayers out there that you can buy, or you can make one out of PVC pipe with ease, just remember if you make one out of pvc pipe try and avoid 90 degree turns, this will greatly reduce the output flow of your pump, but if the pump is too strong add a few elbows or you can add a ball valve to adjust the flow manually.
Then somewhere in the tube going from the pump to your aquarium you will make a cut and add your inline diffuser. The most popular one if from GLA.
Then simply hook your co2 hose up to your inline diffuser and turn the system on. I have read online that, that diffuser can make some noise, but if you fill it with water, it will quite it down a lot. I hope this helps, like I said this it just an idea I have had, I haven't seen anyone else use something like this before, maybe it will catch on and be a good idea for injection in sump aquariums! If this is still kind of unclear I can draw something up and post it but be warned!! I am not an artist by no means, nor do I claim to be lol.
Why not use the pump to chop up the bubbles even more, and use a pump with a needle wheel impeller (like the ones used for protein skimmers). So essentially you introduce the co2 bubbles at or before the pump, then as the bubbles go through the pump, through the sump, and up the return, they have tons of dwell time, increasing the chance of disolving. Seal the sump and inlet/outlet from any splashing and you should have no issue. Tom Barr has done this with his 120g dutch setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,211 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A lot of good info here, thank you very much. I am planning to get a jebao dc pump (a lot of my reefer friends are very happy with them) and use it as a return pump. I think I like Tom Barr's reactor idea the best http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/3444-Dual-venturi-DIY-External-CO2-reactor because I can place that kind of reactor in a sump. I still don't know if I should Tee from my return pump's outlet to feed the reactor or make a separate loop with dedicated pump and put the outlet near return's pipe inlet. What is your experience with these methods?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Why not use the pump to chop up the bubbles even more, and use a pump with a needle wheel impeller (like the ones used for protein skimmers). So essentially you introduce the co2 bubbles at or before the pump, then as the bubbles go through the pump, through the sump, and up the return, they have tons of dwell time, increasing the chance of disolving. Seal the sump and inlet/outlet from any splashing and you should have no issue. Tom Barr has done this with his 120g dutch setup.
This works well - EXCEPT the tank is full of bubbles. If this is a show tank then it detracts from its appearance. A good reactor will eliminate the bubble mist from traveling into your tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Hey Smog,

I have a reef-ready tank that is connected to the canister but I don't use a durso so air isn't an issue. There's no need as it's a closed system. I keep the drain pipe below the water line as you would in a Bean Animal or Herbie. There's no risk of flooding as the canister can't overflow.

In my opinion, a sump is doable with pressurized CO2. I prefer the in-tank diffusers as I've had too many problems in the past with external reactors leaking, clogging or putting micro bubbles into the aquarium.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
This works well - EXCEPT the tank is full of bubbles. If this is a show tank then it detracts from its appearance. A good reactor will eliminate the bubble mist from traveling into your tank.
If your needle wheel pump is breaking the bubbles into a fine mist, and then running it through a sump, I doubt you'll have any bubbles. Maybe you'll get bubbles from the plants photosynthesizing & producing oxygen. The key to this method, from what I've read because I haven't tried it, is to seal the sump and all the inlets/outlets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,211 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Again a lot useful info, thanks. More questions: since I am planning to have a small corner overflow that my friend is always putting on tank he makes, I can only put a durso pipe in there and not the silent beanie 3 pipe system. I don't want to play with sealing the first chamber of my sump if it's not necessary, would rather bump up the co2. Question- do you have your inlet pipe going into the sump submersed in water? If no, does the splashing degass a lot of co2? If no, does it "burp" from time to time? I am not familiar with low flow systems, but when I run the tank as a reef I couldn't submerse the pipe as it will release bubbles on a constant matter. But that was with 800gph flow. How is it in fw planted tanks?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
I don't have the bean animal 3 pipe system because I'm running into a canister. For you, I would recommend the Herbie 2 pipe- the full siphon and the back up and run the return over the back. This will eliminate the sound if the return pipe is about 2 inches below water line in the sump.

I don't think you need to worry about sealing the sump if you are adding CO2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Again a lot useful info, thanks. More questions: since I am planning to have a small corner overflow that my friend is always putting on tank he makes, I can only put a durso pipe in there and not the silent beanie 3 pipe system. I don't want to play with sealing the first chamber of my sump if it's not necessary, would rather bump up the co2. Question- do you have your inlet pipe going into the sump submersed in water? If no, does the splashing degass a lot of co2? If no, does it "burp" from time to time? I am not familiar with low flow systems, but when I run the tank as a reef I couldn't submerse the pipe as it will release bubbles on a constant matter. But that was with 800gph flow. How is it in fw planted tanks?
I run my drain submersed; there are a lot of bubbles but by the time it hits the return pump they are gone. Bubble trap immediately after the drain line. That is off a mag 9.5 pump, assuming 600gph+.

I tried sealing my sump, there was no noticable difference in CO2 offgassing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
sump bubble trap

Bubble trap immediately after the drain line.
I use a simple bubble trap which consists of a the 3/4 drain line ending in a 2" PVC T. The end of the T connects to a 24" long piece of 2" pipe that ends below the surface of the water. The T is placed above the level of the water so any 'burped' air will come out. I plugged the T opening down to a 3/8" hole to limit air exchange. It also keeps evaporation down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
I use a simple bubble trap which consists of a the 3/4 drain line ending in a 2" PVC T. The end of the T connects to a 24" long piece of 2" pipe that ends below the surface of the water. The T is placed above the level of the water so any 'burped' air will come out. I plugged the T opening down to a 3/8" hole to limit air exchange. It also keeps evaporation down.
any pictures or diagram of this setup?
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top