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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a jebao 8000 in a 40 gallon sump and a herbie setup. If my pump is on the first setting I can get the herbie nice and quiet but the flow feels weak, I was hoping to have more circulation. If I turn the pump up to two the pump section of the sump drains faster than it can fill. Is this an error on my part with sump design?

I copied the design from Briansaquariumcare.com


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If you have filled the sump and display to maximum capacity before turning on the pump, it is a problem with your design.

The issue is not necessarily only with the sump, an insufficiently sized overflow will cause the display level to rise quite a bit (making it hold too much water), and having too large of a height difference between the main and emergency drain will absorb water as well.
 

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Do you have a gate or ball valve in your siphon to the sump?


Ball valve. It's a really nice one but a ball valve none the less. Ordered a gate valve from Amazon to redo it.

I ran into this problem with mine. I had to change my media filter between the chambers. Was not letting enough water through which caused the imbalance.


I have a really coarse Sponge in there so it's hard to believe that could be my issue but I'll try taking it out to see if that makes a difference. Thanks.

If you have filled the sump and display to maximum capacity before turning on the pump, it is a problem with your design.

The issue is not necessarily only with the sump, an insufficiently sized overflow will cause the display level to rise quite a bit (making it hold too much water), and having too large of a height difference between the main and emergency drain will absorb water as well.


The drain is half way down from the emergency. I used the gmac reef guide to set the drain height. Even when I fill the dt and sump all the way my sump section is low, the other sump sections just rise higher. Going to try putting a gate valve in and see if that helps at all. Thanks.
 

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Wondering if There's air in line? Would that slow things down?


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It could, but you'd hear that as the turbulence would be noticeably noisy.

What size is your drain? a 1" drain should be able to handle about 400-600 gph in gravity fed, and up to 900 gph in full siphon.

How is the water level in the rest of the chambers? if it is something in the sump causing the problem then one of the earlier chambers should start to overflow as it will be getting water faster than it can send it to the next chamber. If this is not happening then the problem is with the drain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It could, but you'd hear that as the turbulence would be noticeably noisy.



What size is your drain? a 1" drain should be able to handle about 400-600 gph in gravity fed, and up to 900 gph in full siphon.



How is the water level in the rest of the chambers? if it is something in the sump causing the problem then one of the earlier chambers should start to overflow as it will be getting water faster than it can send it to the next chamber. If this is not happening then the problem is with the drain.


The drain has a 1" bulkhead but it has 1.5" pipe running to sump. It does appear that the other chambers fill up faster than the water can get through though. The first baffle (far right) is supposed to set the height right? If so the water was about two inches over that glass. I have a large coarse Sponge filter in the next baffle, wondering if that is messing me up. If so what could I possibly use instead? Thanks for the help.
 

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The drain has a 1" bulkhead but it has 1.5" pipe running to sump. It does appear that the other chambers fill up faster than the water can get through though. The first baffle (far right) is supposed to set the height right? If so the water was about two inches over that glass. I have a large coarse Sponge filter in the next baffle, wondering if that is messing me up. If so what could I possibly use instead? Thanks for the help.
I've never heard of a sponge stopping flow like that before. I'd try taking it out and seeing if that fixes the problem. We can figure out a solution later on, but knowing for sure its the problem is a good first step.

People use all sorts of crazy dense filter media in sumps without an issue, but who knows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the help. In the process of replunbing the sump with a gate valve now. Once I get it all squared away I'll report back. Cheers.


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I know your in redesign and here something to think about. In your sump if something gets plugged there should be a way around it. Your pump should never be without water. In my sumps if the bag's, filter pad or sponge get plug some how the water has to get around it to the pump. The nice thing about buying your sump is that a lot of other people have already figured that out.

I have gate vales on all my return pumps but there all open and I never touch them. You want that pump running at the max rate and the returns should never slow your pump.
 

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I would say it's to much pump for your over flow. I've been doing saltwater for a few years and sumps on my last few setups and if the pump is pushing more than the drain can handle it will empty the pump section of the sump. And the jebeo pumps move a lot of water. I would personally try maybe a dc6000 or I'm not sure if they have one but say a 4000. As dc8 minimum flow rating is still close to 1000gph. A single drain will have problems keeping up


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My opinion differs from the other to some extent.

You have several factors going on.

First is how fast the Herbie overflow can drain water. I would agree the @aga31 about flow rates, "a 1" drain should be able to handle about 400-600 gph in gravity fed, and up to 900 gph in full siphon." This means that if you pump water into the display tank faster then it can be drained, you will have the tank overfloe or the return area of the sump run dry, no matter how big they are.

Second, is the flow rate of the return pump. The Jebao 8000 pump can pump opver 2000 GPH, although that will be reguced somewhat by the plimbing and the height you need to pump the water.

Third is the size of the return pump chamber. As you increase the pump flow rate, it's going to slightly raise the level of water in the main tank. To a point, this additional height of water allows the over flow to remove water ar a faster rate, un to the max the over flow can handle. It your return area is too small, you'll run it dry even before you have much flow cominig through the overflow.

I see a couple of problems in your system.

The pump's flow rate is beyond what the herbie overflow can deliver. As you can see the your system works fine at a low flow rate.

The return pump section is too small. I suspect this is your problem. Remove that far left set of baffles, and this will give you more water to work with, since you will now have more water you can add to the main display tank before the overflow needs to drain it at the same rate.

PS - You have a DC controllable pump. It was incorrect advice for someone to advice you to add a valve on the output side of the DC controllable pump, and use that to throttle back the flow. This will only put more stress on the pump, and you don't need it, because you can adjust the pump speed directly.
 

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I disagree with the DC8 pump putting out 2000 gallon at any head height. I'm running the DC16 and with two returns it would be lucky to putting out 1200 gallon and hour. I find it hard to believe your 1" over flow can't handle that pump. I have a rio 3100 running with a 1" overflow and I would guess the flow at about 800 gallons an hour and maybe more.

Do you have any restriction on your over flow?
 

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I disagree with the DC8 pump putting out 2000 gallon at any head height. I'm running the DC16 and with two returns it would be lucky to putting out 1200 gallon and hour. I find it hard to believe your 1" over flow can't handle that pump. I have a rio 3100 running with a 1" overflow and I would guess the flow at about 800 gallons an hour and maybe more.

Do you have any restriction on your over flow?
tend to agree on the 1" plumbing, I have 1" plumbing on my bean animal and it can take everything I can throw at it.
I know a lot depends on the return pump GPH but my valve is close to 1/2 closed on the 1" to get the level right. So I know it can handle a lot of GPH.
 
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