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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 15 gal. moderately planted tank, and it appears that some of the plants are tuning white. I also have a number of red plants in the aquarium as well.

At present I am dosing PPS-PRO with Seachem Flourish Excel daily.

I want to know whether I should add chelated iron to my micro solution to increase daily concentrations of Fe? If you have any additional questions feel free to ask!
 

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I have a 15 gal. moderately planted tank, and it appears that some of the plants are tuning white. I also have a number of red plants in the aquarium as well.

At present I am dosing PPS-PRO with Seachem Flourish Excel daily.

I want to know whether I should add chelated iron to my micro solution to increase daily concentrations of Fe? If you have any additional questions feel free to ask!
Hi JuanSan,

PPS-Pro micro solution uses CSM+B diluted into a solution if I remember correctly. CSM+B does have some iron in it.

By saying your leaves are turning 'white' can you be a bit more descriptive please? Is the whole leaf showing the problem, just the area of the leaves between the veins of the leaves showing the problem, are the leaf tips bending downwards, is the leaf curling lengthwise, unusual waves in the leaves? What type of light and wattage do you have on your tank and what is your photoperiod?
Thanks,
-Roy
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi JuanSan,

PPS-Pro micro solution uses CSM+B diluted into a solution if I remember correctly. CSM+B does have some iron in it.

By saying your leaves are turning 'white' can you be a bit more descriptive please? Is the whole leaf showing the problem, just the area of the leaves between the veins of the leaves showing the problem, are the leaf tips bending downwards, is the leaf curling lengthwise, unusual waves in the leaves? What type of light and wattage do you have on your tank and what is your photoperiod?
Thanks,
-Roy
Lighting
24" Finnex Planted+
18" Finnx Ray 2 DS

These lights are on a 2 inch riser that I custom built.

Photoperiod: 6 hours.

What the plants are doing? See attached pictures.
 

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Lighting
24" Finnex Planted+
18" Finnx Ray 2 DS

These lights are on a 2 inch riser that I custom built.

Photoperiod: 6 hours.

What the plants are doing? See attached pictures.
Hi JuanSan,

What are you doing - cooking those poor plants?? lol

Serious that is a L-O-T of light on top of a 13" tall tank; especially without CO2. Excel / glutaraldehyde will provide some carbon but no where near what you will need with a light intensity of about PAR = 165 - 170 (72 + 95) (assuming 2 inch riser and 3" of substrate). Also, PPS-Pro dosing (per the instructions) is never going to provide sufficient nutrients for that amount of light.

If it were me I would: 1) do a 50% water change; 2) immediately start dosing per the Estimative Index (IE) method; and 3) remove the Ray2 from the tank, and either cut the light back on the Planted+ either by adjusting the output of the fixture or if that is not possible then a shorter photoperiod.

Give the plants a week or two and see if they don't respond to less sun-like conditions. lol Let us know how it goes!
-Roy

10 gallon; 12" tall; [email protected]; no Co2 but dosing Excel and EI
 

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The plants are dieing from an extreme amount of overkill on the light.
What adjustments are there on the planted+ fixture?
The RayII is way too strong to be on that small(short) of a tank and likely
should never be on any tank that isn't at least 20" tall. What does the DS stand for
BTW because it may be less powerful than a regular RayII.
There is a small handful of plants around that can grow fast enough to keep
the algae off at very high PAR. The rest of the plants just can't grow fast enough
to be algae free under extremely high light such as you have in there.
60-80 PAR is more than most tanks can take and still remain algae free.
If you check the PAR rating on the Planted+ and find it to put out PAR in that
range at the depth of your tank then just get rid of the RayII completely.
If it doesn't get higher than 40(50 would be enough) PAR at the depth of
your tank then perhaps you can remove the Planted+ and filter the light from
RayII with some window screen(fiberglass) to tone it down. Use the chart you
already have on the RayII and take off 30-35% from the number it gives at the
depth of your tank. This will tell you how much one piece of fiberglass window screen will reduce the PAR. If it gets below 80 then you are good to go. If it does not
you will need to raise the fixture more.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi JuanSan,

What are you doing - cooking those poor plants?? lol

Serious that is a L-O-T of light on top of a 13" tall tank; especially without CO2. Excel / glutaraldehyde will provide some carbon but no where near what you will need with a light intensity of about PAR = 165 - 170 (72 + 95) (assuming 2 inch riser and 3" of substrate). Also, PPS-Pro dosing (per the instructions) is never going to provide sufficient nutrients for that amount of light.

If it were me I would: 1) do a 50% water change; 2) immediately start dosing per the Estimative Index (IE) method; and 3) remove the Ray2 from the tank, and either cut the light back on the Planted+ either by adjusting the output of the fixture or if that is not possible then a shorter photoperiod.

Give the plants a week or two and see if they don't respond to less sun-like conditions. lol Let us know how it goes!
-Roy

10 gallon; 12" tall; [email protected]; no Co2 but dosing Excel and EI
This is my current setup:


CURRENT SETUP (05/13/2016)

Tank
15g Aqueon (24"x12"x12")

Parameters
Temp 75 F
pH ~7.0
NH3 ~0-.125 ppm
NO2 ~ 0 ppm
NO3 ~10-15 ppm
GH 15 dGH (~265ppm)
KH 11 dKH (~196.9 ppm)
PO4 ~.8 mg/L
Silicates ~18.5 mg/L

Lighting
24" Finnex Planted+
18" Finnx Ray 2 DS

These lights are on a 2 inch riser that I custom built.

CO2
5# tank
GLA GRO-1 CO2 REGULATOR Regulator
GLA inline CO2 diffuser on outlet pipe
Atomic Check valve

Filter
Eheim 2232

Heater
Eheim Jager 75W

Filter Pipes
CAL AQUA LABS - EFFLUX F2 - 13MM
CAL AQUA LABS - INFLUX X2S - 13MM

Substrate
Flourite and Carib Sea Eco-Complete mix

Fauna
5x Cardinia multidenta 'Amano Shrimp'
2x Puntius titteya, 'Cherry Barb'
3x Otocinclus Catfish


Flora
Foreground: Hemianthus callitrichoides, 'Dwarf Baby Tears', staurogyne repens

Midground: Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini', and Blyxa japoinica

Background: Vallisneria spiralis, 'Straight vallisneria', Rotala macrandra mini type 4

Hardscape
Seiryu Stone (Yang Stone)

Ferts:

GLA PPS-Pro Fertilizer

Seachem Flourish Excel

CO2 turns on 2 hours before lights turn on and off one hour before lights turn off. Lights are on a 6 hour cycle. Daily Fertilization at standard PPS-PRO levels.

I hope this clarifies some of the confusion I apologize. Do I still need to remove the Ray 2 for these high light plants? 33% water changes weekly.

Bump:
I thought you had co2 on this
I do! Sorry for the confusion. See response to Seattle_Aquarist for current setup.

Bump:
The plants are dieing from an extreme amount of overkill on the light.
What adjustments are there on the planted+ fixture?
The RayII is way too strong to be on that small(short) of a tank and likely
should never be on any tank that isn't at least 20" tall. What does the DS stand for
BTW because it may be less powerful than a regular RayII.
There is a small handful of plants around that can grow fast enough to keep
the algae off at very high PAR. The rest of the plants just can't grow fast enough
to be algae free under extremely high light such as you have in there.
60-80 PAR is more than most tanks can take and still remain algae free.
If you check the PAR rating on the Planted+ and find it to put out PAR in that
range at the depth of your tank then just get rid of the RayII completely.
If it doesn't get higher than 40(50 would be enough) PAR at the depth of
your tank then perhaps you can remove the Planted+ and filter the light from
RayII with some window screen(fiberglass) to tone it down. Use the chart you
already have on the RayII and take off 30-35% from the number it gives at the
depth of your tank. This will tell you how much one piece of fiberglass window screen will reduce the PAR. If it gets below 80 then you are good to go. If it does not
you will need to raise the fixture more.

Thank you for the suggestion. I have thought about this as well. I have the link to the PAR data on the Ray2 and the Planted+. But my concern is that I will not have enough light to grow the DBTs. I have attached a profile of my tank to further clarify what and how I am running it. I hope this helps! Based on the newly given information, will I still need to take off one of the lights?
Here is a link to the Ray 2 light that I that I had for my old tank: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007URFALU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

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I wouldn't worry about the Iron. You need to get rid of the algae so the plants can grow. If ferts, co2 are there it's most likely just too much light to deal with as others have mentioned. You probably don't need both. Did you start the setup with 5-6 hrs and do 50% WC on a regular weekly basis?
 

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Hi JuanSan,

Thank you for clarifying your equipment and water parameters. As for your water your NO3 looks good, the PO4 is a little low, and based upon your dGH I would assume you have sufficient Ca and Mg in your tap water. Question, does your PPS-Pro dosing include K2SO4?

Based upon the pictures, and your description of your equipment, I stand by the recommendations I made before with the possible exception of changing from PPS-Pro to EI. Light intensity and/or duration is just excessive for the size and depth of your tank.
 

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Having/using injected CO2 does not remove any restrictions on how much light is
needed and how much is excess. Up to a certain amount of the energy the light is
placing into the tank is being used by the plants to grow. Once you exceed that
amount the algae will be glad to take in that energy for you. Still happens if
it's above or below the amount the plants can/will use. But plants(some)give off
chemicals that inhibit algae growth(a thread about a year ago gave a list from
a scientific study showing which ones do this) and when you add too much light the algae outproduces the chemicals that the plants are producing which inhibit the algae.
A balancing act that we create because it usually doesn't happen in nature.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I wouldn't worry about the Iron. You need to get rid of the algae so the plants can grow. If ferts, co2 are there it's most likely just too much light to deal with as others have mentioned. You probably don't need both. Did you start the setup with 5-6 hrs and do 50% WC on a regular weekly basis?
Fair enough I will take off the Ray 2 tonight then and see how it goes. Yes i have followed your reccomendations of lighting peruods and water changes since setup. Should i modify this?

Hi JuanSan,

Thank you for clarifying your equipment and water parameters. As for your water your NO3 looks good, the PO4 is a little low, and based upon your dGH I would assume you have sufficient Ca and Mg in your tap water. Question, does your PPS-Pro dosing include K2SO4?

Based upon the pictures, and your description of your equipment, I stand by the recommendations I made before with the possible exception of changing from PPS-Pro to EI. Light intensity and/or duration is just excessive for the size and depth of your tank.
Ill follow your reccomendations and see how it goes in a week. Yes the pps-pro does dose k2so4. Do you think thati should increase the lighting cycle now that i will go down to one light or leave it at 6 hours for now?

Raymond S.;9310753 said:
Having/using injected CO2 does not remove any restrictions on how much light is
needed and how much is excess. Up to a certain amount of the energy the light is
placing into the tank is being used by the plants to grow. Once you exceed that
amount the algae will be glad to take in that energy for you. Still happens if
it's above or below the amount the plants can/will use. But plants(some)give off
chemicals that inhibit algae growth(a thread about a year ago gave a list from
a scientific study showing which ones do this) and when you add too much light the algae outproduces the chemicals that the plants are producing which inhibit the algae.
A balancing act that we create because it usually doesn't happen in nature.
That makes too much sense and i have been monitoring the other two criterion so meticulously i never thought that too much light would be the issue. Can you send me a link to that paper i love reading about stuff like this! Thanks again!
 

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I'll follow your recommendations and see how it goes in a week. Yes the pps-pro does dose k2so4. Do you think that i should increase the lighting cycle now that i will go down to one light or leave it at 6 hours for now?
Hi JuanSan,

I would certainly not increase the lighting cycle, in fact even with the removal of the RAYII you may still have to reduce the lighting cycle to achieve some degree of balance. I believe I said 'a week or two', please don't expect the results of the change in lighting to show overnight results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'll follow your recommendations and see how it goes in a week. Yes the pps-pro does dose k2so4. Do you think that i should increase the lighting cycle now that i will go down to one light or leave it at 6 hours for now?
Hi JuanSan,

I would certainly not increase the lighting cycle, in fact even with the removal of the RAYII you may still have to reduce the lighting cycle to achieve some degree of balance. I believe I said 'a week or two', please don't expect the results of the change in lighting to show overnight results.
Hi there!

Thank you for all of your help! I will keep that in mind. Just gave the tank a thorough cleaning and will eagerly await knocking this algae down! I have one additional question. As you can see my water is pretty hard. I have an rodi system, but wanted to know when the appropriate time would be to cut in a 50:50 rodi to well water for my weekly water changes.
 

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Hi there!

Thank you for all of your help! I will keep that in mind. Just gave the tank a thorough cleaning and will eagerly await knocking this algae down! I have one additional question. As you can see my water is pretty hard. I have an rodi system, but wanted to know when the appropriate time would be to cut in a 50:50 rodi to well water for my weekly water changes.
Hi JuanSan,

I prefer to do one change at a time then wait a couple of weeks to see the results. If I change a bunch of stuff at the same time I can't determine what worked and what didn't.

After the light is 'dialed in' a little better so the plants are showing more healthy growth then I would tackle the water parameters but only if they are causing issues with the plant or fish species you want to maintain in your tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi there!

Thank you for all of your help! I will keep that in mind. Just gave the tank a thorough cleaning and will eagerly await knocking this algae down! I have one additional question. As you can see my water is pretty hard. I have an rodi system, but wanted to know when the appropriate time would be to cut in a 50:50 rodi to well water for my weekly water changes.
Hi JuanSan,

I prefer to do one change at a time then wait a couple of weeks to see the results. If I change a bunch of stuff at the same time I can't determine what worked and what didn't.

After the light is 'dialed in' a little better so the plants are showing more healthy growth then I would tackle the water parameters but only if they are causing issues with the plant or fish species you want to maintain in your tank.

The deeper i get into this, the more i realize that this is a lot of trial and error. Im glad i have the science background to understand the the whys but i am really appreciating the experimentation that it takes to have a thriving tank.
 

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On that water thing, just remember that the local petshops likely don't do anything
to adjust the water they use in their tanks. So if you know that you both have the
same supply any fish/shrimp etc that you have are already used to that water.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
On that water thing, just remember that the local petshops likely don't do anything
to adjust the water they use in their tanks. So if you know that you both have the
same supply any fish/shrimp etc that you have are already used to that water.
Thats a really good point. Unfortunately in NM there are only big box stores and a couple of over priced LFS ($6 Amano shrimp for instance) so the interwebs is my best friend.
 
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