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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Edit: The vendor saw this thread and sent me a PM offering to resolve my gripes (+1 for power of the internet). Apparently the rest of my order was backordered and I wasn't aware. Perhaps I flew off the handle a bit out of frustration, but I'm really hopeful that this will get resolved. I don't want to give any names because I don't feel it necessary as this point.

For reference, I'll leave the original rant here and update with the resolution.




Original Thread Text:
Man. What a bummer. I just finished tossing out about half my plant order that I received on Tuesday. I put in a relatively large order at a well known vendor and received a bag of small cuttings. There were plants that were missing altogether and the ones that did show up were in sad shape. *Sigh* I'm not going to throw a fit because I had a hell of a time just getting the order. Just be careful, folks.


Pic of stems that I hope survive.
 

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Let me know if they don't make it....I will help replace them for shipping....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Let me know if they don't make it....I will help replace them for shipping....

Very nice of you. I may just take you up on that. I'm sure we can trade something. In the pic, you can sorta make out the downoi that I just planted last night. I have a few other exotics as well. Thanks again for the offer.
 

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I would be a little patient with those stems, Booger.

In fact instead of trying to root them straight off, float them for a while. The floating will encourage the plants to set off side shoots pretty quickly. If the plants are viable, they will shoot quickly and you'll get more plants. If they aren't viable they won't throw off shoots at all.

Mike
 

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I think this thread should not have been made unless you reveal who that is that sent you dead plants. Also did you contact the seller to see if they will cover the dead plants?
 

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If someone else posted a thread like this before you did, alerting you to a potential bad vendor, this thread wouldn't exist. Post the vendor so we don't see another, or at least tell us how they tried to resolve their issue, please.
 

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You know guys, there is a lot more to this than declaring someone a "bad vendor".

I am not trying to disparage Booger in any way, shape or form but there are some things we need to look at.

Was the postal delivery delayed for some reason causing the plants to sit longer than they should?

It is winter, did the plants sit on a doorstep or out on a postal loading dock in the cold too long?

As far as not receiving some of the plants he ordered, he got substituted. I don't like it and it is a big reason I only buy on forums, but substitutions are nothing new.

Admittedly, Booger "flew of the handle"...a very mild case of flying off the handle in my opinion! :icon_wink

Point is, there are extending circumstances at times. We need to be a little more responsible and think things through a little bit more before we declare someone a bad vendor and start demanding name, rank and serial numbers.

Mike
 

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You know guys, there is a lot more to this than declaring someone a "bad vendor".

I am not trying to disparage Booger in any way, shape or form but there are some things we need to look at.

Was the postal delivery delayed for some reason causing the plants to sit longer than they should?

It is winter, did the plants sit on a doorstep or out on a postal loading dock in the cold too long?

As far as not receiving some of the plants he ordered, he got substituted. I don't like it and it is a big reason I only buy on forums, but substitutions are nothing new.

Admittedly, Booger "flew of the handle"...a very mild case of flying off the handle in my opinion! :icon_wink

Point is, there are extending circumstances at times. We need to be a little more responsible and think things through a little bit more before we declare someone a bad vendor and start demanding name, rank and serial numbers.

Mike
I respectfully disagree..

Reefcentral has a vendor forum. People post their experiences about vendors so others can see how that vendor operates and takes care of bad situations. Some Vendors even monitor this specific forum, and I have seen time after time the vendors step up to the plate and correct a bad situation above and beyond what they need to. Drfosters is one such vendor that has done this.

I believe the Planted Tank should have a vendor forum just for such posts. They should be moderated just like RC's vendor forum in that it is only allowed for 1st hand experience only. Then vendors have a place to defend themselves/or correct the situation. If posters never really say who the bad vendor is, then its not only helping the vendor sell more, but also helping more people get ripped off.
 

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New Mariner, I think that is a great idea. I know I recieved some expensive DOAs from Asia and it wasn't pretty.
 

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I respectfully disagree..
You are not disagreeing with me. You aren't addressing what I wrote :icon_wink , but you are not disagreeing with me.:icon_wink

I am simply trying to relate that there are often circumstances that are beyond the control of the vendor and of which the vendor cannot be held wholly responsible for. I am asking folks to take a moment and look at some of the circumstances before rushing to judgment. It is way too easy to jump to conclusions and declare so-and-so a bad vendor and create a flame war before so-and-so has a chance to make things good. It has happened way to many times here and on other forums. I am just asking for a bit of restraint before a negative commentary.

Plants are living things. They can be prepared for shipment with the utmost care on the part of a vendor, or a forum member if purchased through Swap and Shop, and be subject to all sorts of detrimental conditions (weather, travel delays) beyond anyones control while being shipped. It isn't like mailing out a CD or DVD. You really have to take that into consideration.

What has never failed to amaze me is people's disappointment with plants being shipped to them directly form Asia. The plants are grown en mass (many in emmersed form). They are packaged and put on planes (subject to delays). They often hit a transhipper (subject to delays). Sometimes they hit customs (subject to delays). Then they hit the USPS (subject to delays and weather). They then struggle to shift from emmersed to submersed growth form. There are so many variables that to me, at best, buying plants from Asia is a crap shoot. I can't see how someone doesn't expect to get a pile of mush when making those types of purchases.

Vendor forum is not a new idea here. We had it. Needless to say it was so much trouble we no longer have one. I can't speak for Reef Central. I have never been there as I have no interest in reefs. I don't know how people post in their vendor section or how they moderate it. I do remember what went on in our vendor section. It was a nightmare.

People were unreasonable. Restraint was a word without meaning. Complaints weren't registered to alert other people to potential pit falls. Complaints were registered to be as nasty and as over the top as humanly possible. People weren't looking to work things out with vendors, they were looking to put those vendors out of business. In one instance a vendor posed as a purchaser with a negative review. Our members got tired of the constant bickering and fighting and the administration got tired of the complaints and the constant need to put out fires, so the section was removed. Never to rear it's ugliness again....hopefully! :icon_wink Had the section been used resonably, maturely and with some sembalnce of temperance, it would be in the Member's Section of our forum today.

Mike
 

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I still think the thread needs to be updated with vendor, course of actions taken, shipping method, recieveing, the whole nine yards with the full info.

other than that this is just a venting thread started so that the original poster can vent about getting dead plants and not to give anyone here a heads up about buying from a possible bad vendor or giving advice about recieving/shipping in this cold weather.
 

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I'm not sure a vendor section would work here. Most of our complaints come from plant shipping issues, which are a variable. Most reef issues are probably an equipment issue, and the vast majority of aquarium equipment works, at the very least, how it should.

Plant shipments can and do die, melt, be seized, and whatnot. It's much easier to send poor quality plants than damaged equipment. The former can be an accident. The latter will raise more questions.
 

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I am going to maybe shock a few people here... I am the person who sent Booger the plants, and he lives 30 MINUTES away from me. He has been to my shop in person. There were no dead plants apparently, but there were some missing ones. He NEVER NEVER NEVER informed me of a problem with the order. NEVER. I didn't know about it until I read it here. After reading this, I sent him an email friday, yesterday. asking him what happened to the order, and what I could do to resolve it.

BTW, the reason I am owning up to this is not because I want to embarras him, but because I want to show all those quick to judge people here who want to hang the "bad vendor" things are not always what they appear to be.

Here is the email he sent me today, 02-24-7:

Hey Robert,
Thanks for the PM. I didn't know you followed the forum that closely. I feel embarassed as I did fly off the handle a bit. To be honest, I've just been on a tear to get this thing going and my order with you has been eagarly anticipated. I'm not sure if you remember me, but I visited your facility a couple years back. Having purchased very high quality plants from you in the past (and a full co2 setup, etc.), I was expecting something a little different. Such is the reason why my tank sat bare and I ordered almost all my plants from you.

I didn't find any documentation noting a backorder, so I was under the impression that they were forgotten or otherwised missed.

My main issues are with the missing stems (which has been addressed) and the tiger lotus. I ordered 3 tiger lotus and received what looks to me like 1 plant with 3 leaves. It's a relatively expensive plant, so I was a little dissapointed. Also, one of the anubias coffefolia has very odd growth that is hard to explain, but I think that'll work itself out. I think the rest is ok. Mostly normal adjustments and shipping recovery.

Can we work something out? I'll post an edit to that thread.

Does this sound as dire as what he stated here in this forum? Here is the mistakes I made: apparently I sent him one tiger lotus plant instead of three, (not intentional) I failed to inform him that the 8 bunches of Alternanthera were on back order and would be sent to him at no shipping charge. One Anubias plant has something wierd looking about it. All easily fixed.

The bag full of cuttings he refers to is a little bit of a mystery because most of the plants on his order were potted or rooted plants which arrived with no problem other than the two he mentioned. His photograph shows "surviving" Alternanthera, but thats what was missing and on backorder. I did not send him any Alternanthera. He was very justly upset over the missing plants, and in this frustration exaggerated the condition the plants arrived in. But regardless, whatever the problems were, I would have been happy to take care of it immediately. All he had to do was ask.

Now I am sure some people out here will still try and drag me through the mud, and there is nothing I can do about that, but the point I want to make is don't jump to conclusions based soley on what someone may be saying out of frustration, and if you have an issue with a vendor, particularly one that s only 30 minutes away from you, at least attempt to work it out, or if nothing else hear what they have to say about it first!

I still think the thread needs to be updated with vendor, course of actions taken, shipping method, recieveing, the whole nine yards with the full info.
Still have questions? Any more information you need?
Peace
 

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I respectfully disagree..

Reefcentral has a vendor forum. People post their experiences about vendors so others can see how that vendor operates and takes care of bad situations. Some Vendors even monitor this specific forum, and I have seen time after time the vendors step up to the plate and correct a bad situation above and beyond what they need to. Drfosters is one such vendor that has done this.

I believe the Planted Tank should have a vendor forum just for such posts. They should be moderated just like RC's vendor forum in that it is only allowed for 1st hand experience only. Then vendors have a place to defend themselves/or correct the situation. If posters never really say who the bad vendor is, then its not only helping the vendor sell more, but also helping more people get ripped off.

We had vendor forums here awhile. They were deleted because of arguments and other shenanigans. I distinctly remember many situations where any negative posts about a vendor in their forum were promptly deleted. The positive posts remained. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

I got into it with Momo pretty bad because I had ethical disagreements about the deleted negative posts. The mods didnt seem to have a problem deleting these messages, but I did.

In the end, the forums were deleted and we all moved on.

In regards to Robert, he can be a bit crass, but he's always come through for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Robert,
I hope it's clear that I never meant to drag anyone through the mud. My original thread was posted out of frustration and that's it. I never mentioned names and my "bag of cuttings" comment was a phrase of emotion, not intended to be a detailed description of all that was received. I wish this whole thing would just go away now.

As I eluded to, I've spent close to $1000 (probably don't recognize the name because my GF ordered a lot) with your store and never had anything like this happen. I've never had an order get misplaced (I called 3 times and emailed), be missing items, or include less than stellar plants.

I posted a thread with identifying details purposefully withheld. You saw it, pm'd me, and hopefully we have reached an amicable solution. I edited the original thread to reflect that. Let's put it to bed.


-Kris
 

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I am going to maybe shock a few people here... I am the person who sent Booger the plants, and he lives 30 MINUTES away from me. He has been to my shop in person. There were no dead plants apparently, but there were some missing ones. He NEVER NEVER NEVER informed me of a problem with the order. NEVER. I didn't know about it until I read it here. After reading this, I sent him an email friday, yesterday. asking him what happened to the order, and what I could do to resolve it.

BTW, the reason I am owning up to this is not because I want to embarras him, but because I want to show all those quick to judge people here who want to hang the "bad vendor" things are not always what they appear to be.

Here is the email he sent me today, 02-24-7:




Does this sound as dire as what he stated here in this forum? Here is the mistakes I made: apparently I sent him one tiger lotus plant instead of three, (not intentional) I failed to inform him that the 8 bunches of Alternanthera were on back order and would be sent to him at no shipping charge. One Anubias plant has something wierd looking about it. All easily fixed.

The bag full of cuttings he refers to is a little bit of a mystery because most of the plants on his order were potted or rooted plants which arrived with no problem other than the two he mentioned. His photograph shows "surviving" Alternanthera, but thats what was missing and on backorder. I did not send him any Alternanthera. He was very justly upset over the missing plants, and in this frustration exaggerated the condition the plants arrived in. But regardless, whatever the problems were, I would have been happy to take care of it immediately. All he had to do was ask.

Now I am sure some people out here will still try and drag me through the mud, and there is nothing I can do about that, but the point I want to make is don't jump to conclusions based soley on what someone may be saying out of frustration, and if you have an issue with a vendor, particularly one that s only 30 minutes away from you, at least attempt to work it out, or if nothing else hear what they have to say about it first!



Still have questions? Any more information you need?
Peace

I want to commend you Robert for stepping up. It takes a lot of guts to do that. About 3 years ago, I purchased a CO2 unit from you, and have never set it up. I plan on setting it up in the next few months. Im glad I purchased the unit from such a standup guy. Things do go wrong. I dont hold anything against vendors for things that go wrong. You are human just like we are. Its how the vendor makes up for the mistake that makes the stand out. Had Booger not posted this thread, would you have ever know about his unhappiness? Would you rather him go on about life and never order from you again because he was unhappy and you never knew about it? I dont think you would...And thats what I feel a vendor forum should operate.

Apparently there was a forum here at one time. I dont think it was moderated to well by how it sounds. A person should make a valid complaint, but not run the vendor down in the mud or vice versa.

In a few months Robert, you can expect an order from me due specifically to your character and taking responsibility for what happened. In my eyes, thats what makes a 1st rate vendor!:thumbsup:
 

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I got into it with Momo pretty bad because I had ethical disagreements about the deleted negative posts. The mods didnt seem to have a problem deleting these messages, but I did.
You and I argued?? :hihi: Who would have thought!! :hihi: :hihi: To be honest Bob, I completely forgot!

BTW...Bob and I get along quite well now. At least I believe we do. :icon_wink

As I said earlier, that section was impossible to moderate. Not all the negative posts were removed. However since most of the negative posts we so darn over the top ridiculously unreasonable a majority of them were removed and the flame wars ceased.

It was a tough decision, and we debated it for a while among ourselves, but we were glad we made it.

Mike
 
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