Problems with my Java Fern (first time posting on a forum)

3128 Views 16 Replies 8 Participants Last post by martincgattoni, Sep 24, 2021

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · Sep 4, 2021 (Edited)

Hi everyone!
First time posting in a forum, kinda frustrated with my java fern since february. I'll attach a before (january 2021) and after (august 2021) picture.

February is when all the dying off, holes in the leaves and black spots started to appear. I know cause I periodically take pictures of my tank.

In february I introduced Marsilea Hirsuta and CO2 to my tank. So I started thinking about the Marsilea Hirsuta taking part of the nutrients my java fern needed. Upped the dosages (flourish, potassium and iron) non of them seem to work or better anything.

As of now I am testing without CO2 (2 days of no CO2). Cause of two reasons:
-Noticed some surface scum (might that be it)
-Might help the Java Fern against the Marsilea Hirsuta
Will know in two weeks if it did anything or not.

Plants in the tank Java fern (the only plant dying off), Java Fern Windelov, Anubia Nana, Hornwort and Marsilea Hirsuta.
No filters, no lighting, no temperatures were changed through the whole tank life. The tank has been in the same house (only different room in the pictures).

If you need anymore water parameter info or anything else please let me know.

Thanks in advanced.

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Aaronious

· #2 · Sep 8, 2021

Do you have a pet Praying Mantis?

And Parameters will be needed I'm sure. I think they like phosphates so my first thought is what level of that you have in the tank? The other parameters will be helpful as well including whatever you can get on the items dosed into the tank. also how old is the tank? or the lights to be specific; the lights for example, if run at 100% will only stay truely that 100% for a year or so. Then it will degrade over time.

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 8, 2021

Aaronious said:
Do you have a pet Praying Mantis?

And Parameters will be needed I'm sure. I think they like phosphates so my first thought is what level of that you have in the tank? The other parameters will be helpful as well including whatever you can get on the items dosed into the tank. also how old is the tank? or the lights to be specific; the lights for example, if run at 100% will only stay truely that 100% for a year or so. Then it will degrade over time.

Thanks Aaronious for replying first of all!

-The Mantis isn't my pet hahaha, it just happened to be there.
-I have only this 6 in 1 strips for my water parameters, although phosphates shouldn't be high cause im not overfeeding and there is low fish stock in the tank as for right now. But has been more stocked in february for example, so maybe its not that. Do you recommend buying a more pro test kit or phosphate alone one?
-I dose two times a week each time the following (what the brand more or less recommends):
-5ml of flurosih potassium
-2,5ml of flourish iron
-2ml of flourish (all in one)
-About the lighting they seem to be working fine they are just in that year mark so by february (when all this happened) they were only 6 months old. I have them at the maximum output on the white channel (100%).

Thanks in advanced.

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ytro

· #4 · Sep 8, 2021

Those test strips aren't very good for accuracy, so I would recommend upgrading to individual liquid test kits. Do you know your nitrate level? I noticed you are not dosing and have a low fish stock. This could be contributing to your problem. It also looks like you are dosing quite a bit of iron. You are aware that Seachem Flourish has iron in it, correct? I don't see the use of an additional iron supplement being necessary. Iron has an antagonistic relationship with phosphate, so when one of these levels is too high, it drops the other. I would leave your co2 on, it won't cause any issues but could if you leave it off.

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 9, 2021

ytro said:
Those test strips aren't very good for accuracy, so I would recommend upgrading to individual liquid test kits. Do you know your nitrate level? I noticed you are not dosing and have a low fish stock. This could be contributing to your problem. It also looks like you are dosing quite a bit of iron. You are aware that Seachem Flourish has iron in it, correct? I don't see the use of an additional iron supplement being necessary. Iron has an antagonistic relationship with phosphate, so when one of these levels is too high, it drops the other. I would leave your co2 on, it won't cause any issues but could if you leave it off.

Thanks for the recommendation I will probably end up buying one.

-Below 10mg Nitrates (nitrogen does come in the flourish all in one) Also the java fern problem has been occurring with high fish stock as well as low one.

-Yes I am aware that it also contains Iron, start dosing it to try and fix the java fern issue didn't seem to help though. So I guess I should stop dosing it. Even more so if you think my issue might be phosphate related.

-CO2 wise i wanna try these couple of weeks without and see what happens. So far, a week in the Surface scum has disappeared which might be causing the issues. Plant wise not much seems to have changed.

Thanks for taking your time for replying me.

Jeffww

· #6 · Sep 9, 2021

If those are two AI primes, they may be way too much light depending on what wattage you are running them at. How high are they turned on? For example, I would get 100 par at 80% with my AI prime 16hd. You probably only need to turn them up to around 20% or roughly 15-20watts power useage each.

Java fern for me does well with plenty of potassium and calcium in the water. The other nutrients can be rather low.

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #7 · Sep 10, 2021

Jeffww said:
If those are two AI primes, they may be way too much light depending on what wattage you are running them at. How high are they turned on? For example, I would get 100 par at 80% with my AI prime 16hd. You probably only need to turn them up to around 20% or roughly 15-20watts power useage each.

Java fern for me does well with plenty of potassium and calcium in the water. The other nutrients can be rather low.

No they are not they are a coupe of pixie marine 60. Either way my java fern thrived under this light from September 2020 to february 2021. Once I introduced CO2 and marsilea hirsuta to the tank (february 2021) java fern started to die out. So I think its not light related.

Thanks for replying.

Asteroid

· #8 · Sep 10, 2021

Well let's see, plants need light, co2 and ferts. So if it's not the light and not the co2, you might need to up ferts with addition of co2. Best way to grow is plentiful amount of ferts and consistent water changes to keep water clean. Any plant including java fern will grow better with co2 as long as ferts are there to support it.

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 10, 2021

Asteroid said:
Well let's see, plants need light, co2 and ferts. So if it's not the light and not the co2, you might need to up ferts with addition of co2. Best way to grow is plentiful amount of ferts and consistent water changes to keep water clean. Any plant including java fern will grow better with co2 as long as ferts are there to support it.

Okey thanks for replying man.

jake21

· #10 · Sep 10, 2021

Java fern will grow too large with co2; mine are touching 16 inches high. My guess is that the plants are lacking nutrient but it could be some sort of issue with the light. I'm lousy at guessing what is wrong with the plants. Mine receive decent light as i have a wrgb2 on the tank but they are shaded a bit by floaters and themselves. The tank has been running for around 28 months. To be honest they've become a bit of a large out of control pest but since the fishes like to hide under them i leave them in the tank.

Kubla

· #11 · Sep 10, 2021

I've had Java ferns grow to the top of a 24" deep tank, but there are a lot of different varieties and sub species. They grow different size and shape leaves depending on what region they're from and some get larger than others.

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #12 · Sep 15, 2021

jake21 said:
Java fern will grow too large with co2; mine are touching 16 inches high. My guess is that the plants are lacking nutrient but it could be some sort of issue with the light. I'm lousy at guessing what is wrong with the plants. Mine receive decent light as i have a wrgb2 on the tank but they are shaded a bit by floaters and themselves. The tank has been running for around 28 months. To be honest they've become a bit of a large out of control pest but since the fishes like to hide under them i leave them in the tank.

Jake thanks for your reply. My Java Fern worked best without CO2. But yeah im guessing its more likely to be a nutrient deficiency. I have tried upping potassium, iron and the all in one; and got no results so I guess I will try adding phosphates, as some of the other forum members proposed.

Kubla said:
I've had Java ferns grow to the top of a 24" deep tank, but there are a lot of different varieties and sub species. They grow different size and shape leaves depending on what region they're from and some get larger than others.

True that. In my tank I have the standard one (the one having the issues) and the windelov variant.

Asteroid

· #13 · Sep 15, 2021

Every aquatic plant will grow better with co2, all tanks are co2 deprived so it becomes the limiting factor in growth. If using co2, ferts and/or light could be limiting factor. Also trimming dead/unhealthy leaves is very important. If you trim aggressively you will get better growth.

Some of my java fern pearling under high light and co2.

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martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #14 · Sep 16, 2021

Asteroid said:
Every aquatic plant will grow better with co2, all tanks are co2 deprived so it becomes the limiting factor in growth. If using co2, ferts and/or light could be limiting factor. Also trimming dead/unhealthy leaves is very important. If you trim aggressively you will get better growth.

Some of my java fern pearling under high light and co2.

Hi thanks for replying once again I appreciate it. The 2 weeks without CO2 just passed no real improvement on the Java Fern. So yeah I will be turning it on back today. I have to do the water change today too so I will trim the bad leaves too. I am feeling it hast to be phosphates at this point. I will buy some phosphate fert and try it for the following weeks.
Thanks.

N7QL

· #15 · Sep 16, 2021

Sometimes when Java fern gets those black spots it means there will be babies. The babies actually grow on the leaves themselves on those black spots. Mine are doing that currently. I left the babies on the leaves but cut the leaves from the mother plant and wrapped them around a rock. That way the babies will attach themselves to the rock. There are a few leaves that look like they may have babies starting to develop that are still attached to the mother plant.

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 16, 2021

N7QL said:
Sometimes when Java fern gets those black spots it means there will be babies. The babies actually grow on the leaves themselves on those black spots. Mine are doing that currently. I left the babies on the leaves but cut the leaves from the mother plant and wrapped them around a rock. That way the babies will attach themselves to the rock. There are a few leaves that look like they may have babies starting to develop that are still attached to the mother plant.

Thanks for replying. I will take that into account.

ytro said:
Those test strips aren't very good for accuracy, so I would recommend upgrading to individual liquid test kits. Do you know your nitrate level? I noticed you are not dosing and have a low fish stock. This could be contributing to your problem. It also looks like you are dosing quite a bit of iron. You are aware that Seachem Flourish has iron in it, correct? I don't see the use of an additional iron supplement being necessary. Iron has an antagonistic relationship with phosphate, so when one of these levels is too high, it drops the other. I would leave your co2 on, it won't cause any issues but could if you leave it off.

Hi just wanted to thank you. Started dosing Flourish Phosphorus a couples of days ago and the java fern seems to be doing much better already.

martincgattoni

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 24, 2021

Aaronious said:
Do you have a pet Praying Mantis?

And Parameters will be needed I'm sure. I think they like phosphates so my first thought is what level of that you have in the tank? The other parameters will be helpful as well including whatever you can get on the items dosed into the tank. also how old is the tank? or the lights to be specific; the lights for example, if run at 100% will only stay truely that 100% for a year or so. Then it will degrade over time.

You were right. Thanks for the help. Started dosing Phosohorus a couple of days ago and the Java Fern is already doing better.

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