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Problem with new pressurized c02 system. SEND HELP!

1570 Views 16 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  exv152
Hey guys! First time posting here and I got a confusing issue.


So I just bought all the stuff I needed for my pressurized c02 system. 5 lb c02 tank, regulator/needle valve/solenoid... Also have a bubble counter (not the colored ones) and a glass atomic diffuser. Oh and also a cheapy check valve but the bubble counter says it's supposed to have one built in it.

Here's my issue.. After setting up everything, the system was working great and produced thousands of micro bubbles.. However, after about 5-6 minutes I noticed it stopped working.. After checking everything I noticed the whole line was filled with water.. The tubing/bubble counter/ diffuser.. Everything filled with water, which inhibited the flow of c02.

How is this happening? Is it the diffuser? The check valve? The bubble counter? I just don't understand how water is backing up into the whole line!

Thanks for any advice!!
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Sounds like your working pressure isn't set high enough. Check out some of the CO2 threads to make sure you've got everything set up correctly.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107312

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137245
Help has been sent :)

Something is wrong and a picture of the whole set up would help.

Check for leaks, instructions are on TPT.

I am guessing you just run out of co2 (what is your high pressure gauge is showing now? It should be around 750 psi). No pressure from co2 = water is backing up. That's what the check valve is supposed to prevent by making the co2 line to flow in a single direction only.

If the above is the case, don't feel too bad - not checking for tight connections is a common oversight.

v3
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Since it takes very little pressure to move CO through water as compared to forcing it through the diffuser, I might look for other things. Is it possible the needle valve was loose enough to gradully move and shut down flow? Leaks along the route from the tank to the diffuser where gas might escape rather than go through the diffuser?
I would work the problem by starting at one end and take things apart. Perhaps start at the reg and assure that you are getting flow there and then work along the tubing to remove and check each item until you find a leak or a blockage?
Even very low pressure like 3-4 PSI will let gas move through water in front of it.
Okay I'm gonna try and post some pictures of the parts I'm using. I think the most plausible thing after reading what you guys said is that there is either a leak somewhere or I'm not letting enough of the c02 out. All equipment is brand new including the c02 tank which is completely full.

Btw high pressure on the regulator reads 850-900 psi and the low pressure reads around 30ish psi when I turn on the needle valve a little bit.
Then when you start opening the needle valve ( a bit at a time) you should see bubbles in the bubble counter?

If not, then check if you have a huge leak between the needle valve and the counter or if your check valve is installed in the wrong direction. Oh, and btw, is your solenoid plugged into power?

Having an obstruction either in the solenoid or in the needle valve us possible, but unlikely.

Edit: some atomizers need working pressure 35-40 psi. If the above fails, try raising your pressure a tad.

v3
Is this a prefab setup like an aquatek, or did you assemble all the components yourself? And did you soap test for leaks?
I assembled this system myself from individual parts purchased seperate online.

When I turn the needle valve I do check and see the bubbles in the bubble counter.. It seems like everything is working perfectly, no leaks anywhere from what I can physically see/hear.. so maybe it is just me not opening the needle valve enough to maintain a strong enough pressure in the diffuser so water can't get into it?

I was told 5 bubbles per second is ideal for my size aquarium (90 gallons)... so I tried to get it to that as close as possible but it seems like such a little amount once it comes out of the diffuser.

Again, I'll try and get pictures asap

Thanks again for all the help so far guys!
BPS is a meaningless measure as it depends on the working pressure, and your needle valve's orifice size. A more meaningful approach is to shoot for a specific co2 concentration in your water. A general rule of thumb for planted tanks is around 30 ppm. The relevance of BPS is even more removed from your target because of factors like your pH, temperature, flow, surface agitation, plant density, light, you fish etc etc.

Measuring co2 concentration is a pain. The easiest and cheapest tool is a drop checker that gives you an approximation as a reference point. You best and more important indicator us your fish: start sloooow and watch the fish. If they are gasping at the surface, you are injecting too much - back off right away.

'Tuning' your co2 can take couple of days, turning up your co2 and leaving home for a day is a bad idea. Keep checking your fish every hour or so. Once you get where you want to be, daily checking can save a taknfull of fish.

The key here is time and patience.

As an example, I cannot even count bubbles in my high light 65g tank - it's a stream. In my lower light 60g tank, it's a trickle.

Take it slow, watch the fish. Any questions, ask. That's what TPT is all about. And enjoy the process.

v3
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Thanks for the info OVT!

So regardless of all that, do you think that I'm just not applying enough psi of c02 through the needle valve to keep the water from backing up into the lines from the diffuser? It's one of those glass atomic diffusers.
You are welcome. I would bump working pressure to 40 psi first. If nothing still comes out of the diffuser, I would start opening the needle valve - you'd better start seeing the water being pushed back through the hose.

When I get impatient myself, I just open up the valve a lot, wait couple of minutes for the bubbles from the diffuser and then back down right away. No bubbles? Open up more. It takes a bit if practice and patience to get a feel for each needle valve.

v3
When I turn the needle valve I do check and see the bubbles in the bubble counter.. It seems like everything is working perfectly, no leaks anywhere from what I can physically see/hear..
This part is key. When I asked if you did a soapy water test, I'm referring to putting soapy dishsoap type water in a spray bottle, and spraying your bubble counter, needle valve and solenoid connections to detect mciro bubbles. I wasn't referring to bubbles in the bubble counter. You might have a leak somewhere, and the only way to tell is to see where bubbles form in the soap.

Also, did you use teflon tape for the connections?
Btw high pressure on the regulator reads 850-900 psi and the low pressure reads around 30ish psi when I turn on the needle valve a little bit.
The needle valve comes after the gauge sets in the vast majority of rigs. Are you talking about the working pressure knob on the regulator body?
Is the water getting past the check valve? If so the check valve is bad or you connected it backwards. If the water is not getting past the check valve then it is possible the valve is inhibiting the co2 flow. You can either try increasing working pressure or removing the check valve temporarily to see if it solves your problem
Well I finally figured out the issue guys.. You won't believe how simple it was too..

It turns out that the end of the silicone tubing connected to the needle valve was slowly slipping off the needle valve entirely after 6-10 minutes.. Afterwards I imagine the water would start flowing through which is what confused me. I put a twisty tie on the needle valve/tubing to keep it in place and now everything is working fine!!! I appreciate everyone's help. I learned a lot.


Also, Yeah I was talking about the working pressure knob gstitch.


One last question for anyone still hangin about.. What should my BPS be for a 90 gallon tank? It's not heavily planted yet but it will be...

Also, should I have the c02 shut off during the night? I think that's what the solenoid is for when hooked up to a timer.

Thanks!!
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BPS is a meaningless measure as it depends on the working pressure, and your needle valve's orifice size. A more meaningful approach is to shoot for a specific co2 concentration in your water. A general rule of thumb for planted tanks is around 30 ppm. The relevance of BPS is even more removed from your target because of factors like your pH, temperature, flow, surface agitation, plant density, light, you fish etc etc.

Measuring co2 concentration is a pain. The easiest and cheapest tool is a drop checker that gives you an approximation as a reference point. You best and more important indicator us your fish: start sloooow and watch the fish. If they are gasping at the surface, you are injecting too much - back off right away.

'Tuning' your co2 can take couple of days, turning up your co2 and leaving home for a day is a bad idea. Keep checking your fish every hour or so. Once you get where you want to be, daily checking can save a taknfull of fish.

The key here is time and patience.

As an example, I cannot even count bubbles in my high light 65g tank - it's a stream. In my lower light 60g tank, it's a trickle.

Take it slow, watch the fish. Any questions, ask. That's what TPT is all about. And enjoy the process.

v3
And I would connect the solenoid to a timer to turn off co2 at lights out and turn it back on ~30 mins before the lights come back on.

v3
It turns out that the end of the silicone tubing connected to the needle valve was slowly slipping off the needle valve entirely after 6-10 minutes..
I figured as much, that you had a leak somewhere. As mentioned, the bubbles per second is not as important as the pH drop. Keep an eye on how low the pH goes to ensure you have just enough co2. This can be done by adding a drop checker, or measuring the pH/KH as per the co2 chart.
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