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Hi!

Does anybody know the composition of Flourish Excel ?? The website gives no details. Does anyone have an idea what the main source for C might be? Does it contain phytohormones? What does it definitely NOT contain ? Anyone done testing (conductivity, pH, residues after burning, burning point, [maybe even gaschromatography??]....)

Anyone with a "recipe" for something like Poor man's Flourish Excel Drops PMFED (similar to PMDD= dupla dosing drops ??? )


regards

Jörg
 

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Hi, we've discussed this before. the traces in Excel can be duplicated, but the carbon cannot. afferently it's some super secret recipe method rivaling Coca~Cola. you can reduce your carbon introduction costs by simply using Co2 with a trace fertilizer instead of Excel. or you can do what I do and buy Excel 2 Liters at a time, and save on the volume discount.
 

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I make my own Flourish Excel PMFE and the recipe is very simple and cheap!

For $15 I can make enough to dose Lake Ontario.

Good chance you may already have an excellent source of carbon already in your cupboards.

Carbon is something that every living thing including plants need to stay alive.

Human beings eat a lot of it every day. (I do)

The carbon that humans ingest is in the form of carbohydrates.

What is carbohydrates?

........................................ sugar.


Check the wikipedia link:
(disallowed - you will have to google it)

Where do most carbohydrates that humans eat come from?

....................................... plants


What I do is purchase the most basic and unrefined sugars I can find.

I used two different and reasonably cheap products:


1/ Maple Syrup --------- comes from trees ---- a plant

2/ Blackstrap molasses --- comes from cane ---- a plant


They both contain an enormous amount of carbon!

They have very simple sugars (carbon) that plants can use!

Not only do they have carbon.

They have trace elements in the exact proportions that a plant requires to live.

Sap is the plants version of blood.

All the energy (sugar/carbon) and nutrients that a plant requires are transported in the sap.

Check out the nutrient and carbon (carbohydrates) list for both molasses and maple syrup here:

Molasses
(disallowed - you will have to google it)

Maple Syrup
(disallowed - you will have to google it)

What's the best kind of carbon to give a plant?

The same kind of carbon that comes from a plant in the first place!

Maple Sap is reduced 40 times to make maple syrup by removing the water.

Reverse the process to make a solution equvalent to Maple Sap.

Here are the concentrations I use and dose.

1 teaspoon Maple Syrup

1 teaspoon Blackstrap Molasses

In 250 ml bottle.

I dose 5ml every second day with the trace elements.

It works!

Almost all my plants started growing faster and ALL the algae disappeared after 2 weeks.

BTW, I also use diy co2.

I did notice however, that some hornwort I had, stopped growing so fast and does not look as bushy as it used to.

Everything else looks better and bigger.

I also dose the recommended macros

I do a 30% WC every week.


ffoeg
 

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The above two posts are wrong in so many ways that I cannot fathom where to start correcting.

Blood is required to sustain human life. Why don't people just drink blood instead of eating food and drinking water?

Sarcasm aside, sugar would be much cheaper than maple syrup, but you don't see many people dosing sugar as a carbon source...
 

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If you think about this holistically then where does the water that is in rivers and lakes come from?

Rain.

The rain comes down on a vast landscape surrounding the rivers and lakes.

Good chance each rain drop lands on a tree leaf or plant before being absorbed in the ground and through the roots.

Anything in or on that plant that can easily be dissolved, will be.

What is inside the plant and roots that can easily be dissolved?

Sugars.

So what ends up in the rivers and lakes?

Sugar. ..............> carbon.

So why aren't the oceans full of sugar?

Because it gets used up by the plants and other organisms.

If you don't want to try this it's ok by me.

I have seen beneficial results so far and will continue.

Also, please don't try this and blame me if you have a tank disaster.

Blackstrap mollases is actually sold as a fertiliser for land plants.

It is beneficial for the soil!

Imagine that!

Sugar/carbons is good for soil!

google it!

I suspect that Maple Syrup is too expensive to use for land plants

But..... it's way cheaper than Flourish Excel!

Please let me know what happens if anyone elser tries this.

Its the only way to build consensus and get past the naysayers.


Regards


ffoeg
 

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Also try smelling some Flourish Excel.

What does it smell like?

Molasses?

If you are feeling very adventurous you could try tasting it.

Make certain there are no warnings on the bottle first!


ffoeg
 

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Also try smelling some Flourish Excel.

What does it smell like?

Molasses?

If you are feeling very adventurous you could try tasting it.

Make certain there are no warnings on the bottle first!


ffoeg
HOLY COW! H-O-L-Y C-O-W!!!

This has to be one of the most trollfull troll in the history of trolls!

Not only are these claims completely ridiculous, they have become dangerous.

Excel is a form of gluteraldehyde -a cold sterilant and an embalming fluid. You will do yourself nothing but harm by tasting this dangerous chemical.

My suggestion to ffoeg is to abandon this thread. Your claims are outright false and have crossed the line into dangerousness. You have been flagged as a troll. Any more outlandishness will result in your account being banned.
 

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Be careful about trying to go cheap by making your own Excel. Glutaraldehyde is a very dangerous chemical, that should not be handled unless you know exactly how to do so. The concentration in Excel is low, making it acceptable to use, but medical grade Glutaraldehyde is far too strong and dangerous for us to play with. Even the vapors are dangerous, and at a remarkably low level.

Excel isn't very expensive when purchased by the gallon from BigAl's or Dr.s Foster & Smith. Then you are not risking your life to save a few bucks.
 

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HOLY COW! H-O-L-Y C-O-W!!!

This has to be one of the most trollfull troll in the history of trolls!

Not only are these claims completely ridiculous, they have become dangerous.

Excel is a form of gluteraldehyde -a cold sterilant and an embalming fluid. You will do yourself nothing but harm by tasting this dangerous chemical.

My suggestion to ffoeg is to abandon this thread. Your claims are outright false and have crossed the line into dangerousness. You have been flagged as a troll. Any more outlandishness will result in your account being banned.

from what i read ffoeg doesn't use gluteraldehyde he uses molasses
 

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Hi all,

I have used Glutaraldehyde for well over a year and have found it works just like Excel did for me. My primary use is as an algacide but it also provides supplemental carbon in my aquariums. I mix my own starting with 50% concentration Biological Grade Glut which I store in our garage refrigerator (marked as poison of course). I have provided both the concentrate and diluted Glut to other members of GSAS who have used it successfully.

The most time consuming part was trying find out what the concentration of Glut was in Excel. Don't even ask how long it took me to find this reference. I did a lot of digging for almost a month and found posts on countless different forums. I found guesses of anywhere between 1% to 3% concentration of Glutaraldehyde in Excel. This is the only thread I was able to find where testing provided the results. A member at indianaquariumhobbyist.com worked in a lab and tested the Glut concentration in Excel and found it to be 1.5%. The post is a little over 1/3 the way down the page, dated Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:09 PM.

The bottom line is: I purchased the 1 liter 50% biological grade for $23.00. My shipping (including the UPS hazmat charge) was $32.24 for a total of $55.24. The concentration of glutaraldehyde in Excel is 1.5%. The 1 liter 50% concentration has allowed me to make 33.333 liters of 1.5% glutaraldehyde at a cost of $1.657 per liter. Excel typically costs me $20 plus freight for a two liter bottle. Seems like a good deal to me, plus it allows me the option of making stronger concentrations so my doses are smaller.
 

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So he dumps the molasses and syrup into a water bottle and squirts it into his tanks? In my humble opinion without first hand proof I can't believe that works even half as well as Excel. How is he breaking the complex strains down? While this wouldn't hurt your fish or plants I doubt it does as well as he thinks, low light plants will do ok without a steady carbon source as long as they have a good nutrients source.

BTW: Hoppy is absolutely correct.

- Brad
 

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from what i read ffoeg doesn't use gluteraldehyde he uses molasses
Maybe they can use it and taste it themselves, then tell the rest of us what it taste(burns like hades) like:)

Only a dolt would even suggest tasting it/let alone taking a big wiff.

Read the MSDS on gluteraldehyde..
Reduced carbon such as sucrose can be used by plants, eg in Tissue culture, and survive a long time without photosynthesis, but adding sugar to an aquarium is not even remotely close.

Anyway, this thread is about gluteraldehyde/Excel, Easy Carbo etc.
It can be DIY'ed and folks have done it.

Personally, I like CO2 gas, it's easier and dose the job better.
Excel is useful for folks having troubles with CO2, or an algae issues, which is also a CO2 problem typically. And perhaps a few that like slower growth than CVO2/low light, but more than non CO2/carbon enrichment.

Works well for smaller tanks etc.
The product is very toxic, I'm even wondering if folks should even use it for aquariums..........the vapor is none too good.



Regards,
Tom Barr
 

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Ok the club sells the generic Excel but Tom says it's toxic? I know that if I double the generic that my fish will go to the top of the tank for oxygen. So I stay with what Seachem says to use for their product with no problem. Fumes humm that's a new one. I don't breath a lot of stuff when I use it for I find I am allergic to most things. So far not generic.
Tom what made you change your mind on this product?
 

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Your club will be selling a diluted version probably only 1.5% to 2.0% (hopefully) of glute and the rest is water so you wouldn't be smelling anything it's the handling of the undiluted chemical that's going to get you. Not to mention the fact that double dosing Excel doesn't make my fish gasp for air, that fact alone would make me stop using the stuff your club makes.

- Brad
 
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