Plants not pearling, not growing.

7195 Views 18 Replies 11 Participants Last post by j-gens, Dec 14, 2010

Amazonfish

Discussion Starter · Dec 11, 2010

I pulled out ALLL of the plants from a tank that I was having a lot of trouble with (50 gallon). There were still fish in it but left it "plant-less" for about a month to reset the tank. I still did 50% weekly water changes and left the lights on for just a few hours per day.

I planted it with plants from a tank that is doing REALLY well (25 gallon), but they stopped growing as soon as I put them into the 50. This was about 6 days ago and I don't understand what's happening. I started EI dosing on the day the plants went in. Could it be that nutrient levels aren't high enough yet? I don't know how long it takes for the concentrations of nutrients to get to the minimum effective concentration.

Here are the parameters of both tanks:

50 gallon (the one I'm having trouble with)

3 bulb Catalina T5HO fixture, on 6 hours/day, 4" off the water surface
EI dosing
Pressurized CO2--green drop checker
2 Aquaclear 70s
100% playsand
Fish: 2 Bolivian Rams, 6 dwarf cories, 4 sparkling gouramis

25 gallon (the one doing really well)

3 bulb Catalina T5HO fixture, on 6 hours/day, 4" off the water surface
EI dosing
Pressurized CO2--green drop checker
1 Aquaclear 50
80% playsand, 20% Flourite
Fish: 1 dwarf puffer (he has an awesome bachelor pad)

And for proof, here's a pic of plants in my 25 gallon. They all pearl like crazy!

Can anyone give me insight on what's happening here?

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happi

· #2 · Dec 11, 2010

Amazonfish said:
I pulled out ALLL of the plants from a tank that I was having a lot of trouble with (50 gallon). There were still fish in it but left it "plant-less" for about a month to reset the tank. I still did 50% weekly water changes and left the lights on for just a few hours per day.

I planted it with plants from a tank that is doing REALLY well (25 gallon), but they stopped growing as soon as I put them into the 50. This was about 6 days ago and I don't understand what's happening. I started EI dosing on the day the plants went in. Could it be that nutrient levels aren't high enough yet? I don't know how long it takes for the concentrations of nutrients to get to the minimum effective concentration.

Here are the parameters of both tanks:

50 gallon (the one I'm having trouble with)

3 bulb Catalina T5HO fixture, on 6 hours/day, 4" off the water surface
EI dosing
Pressurized CO2--green drop checker
2 Aquaclear 70s
100% playsand
Fish: 2 Bolivian Rams, 6 dwarf cories, 4 sparkling gouramis

25 gallon (the one doing really well)

3 bulb Catalina T5HO fixture, on 6 hours/day, 4" off the water surface
EI dosing
Pressurized CO2--green drop checker
1 Aquaclear 50
80% playsand, 20% Flourite
Fish: 1 dwarf puffer (he has an awesome bachelor pad)

And for proof, here's a pic of plants in my 25 gallon. They all pearl like crazy!

Can anyone give me insight on what's happening here?

how many watts are your lights?

i use to get pearling and plants use to grow faster under 130 watts pc fixture on my 20g. however they did pearl on my 50g under 2x54w nova extreme for first 4-5 months and then never pearled again.

am guessing the strong light is what causes the pearling along with high co2. even though i have high co2 but no more pearling as the light fixture is same on the 50g and new bulbs added also.

not sure if kelvin rating has anything to do with pearling also, IMO the lower K rating bulbs wont make the plants pearl, that is also a guess.

Amazonfish

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 11, 2010

The two light fixtures should be approximately equivalent. Each tank has a 3 bulb fixture with the same bulbs from the same place.

for the 50 gallon, it's 3x54 watts
for the 25 gallon, it's 3x24 watts

When I had plants in this tank before, they pearled all the time. You can see pics from the tank "Valse" in my signature.

Captivate05

· #4 · Dec 11, 2010

happi said:
how many watts are your lights?

i use to get pearling and plants use to grow faster under 130 watts pc fixture on my 20g. however they did pearl on my 50g under 2x54w nova extreme for first 4-5 months and then never pearled again.

am guessing the strong light is what causes the pearling along with high co2. even though i have high co2 but no more pearling as the light fixture is same on the 50g and new bulbs added also.

not sure if kelvin rating has anything to do with pearling also, IMO the lower K rating bulbs wont make the plants pearl, that is also a guess.

I wondered about this too. When I had 40 watts of 6700k T8 lighting on my 10g (I had floaters and a glass cover over the tank as well), it would pearl like crazy.

My 29g has 4x 18watt T5NO (two 6700; two 350-750nm), ei dosing and the drop checker turned lime green and I would see no pearling. The plants grow just peachy, they just don't pearl.

mistergreen

· #5 · Dec 11, 2010

Think about the height of your tanks. The light's distance to the plants varies in intensity.
Best to get a PAR meter to read the intensity and compare.

Amazonfish

Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 11, 2010

My tanks only have a 2" difference in height though, and this tank (with the same light, same CO2, and EI dosing) used to do really well. It's "Valse" that's in my sig.

mistergreen

· #7 · Dec 11, 2010

hmm, interesting... Try upping the 50G's CO2 just by a bubble/second.

captain_bu

· #8 · Dec 11, 2010

Six days isn't a very long time, the plants need a couple of weeks to to fully settle in and acclimate themselves to a new tank.

You didn't say what the previous problem was with the 50 gallon that made you remove all of the plants in the first place... or how it was resolved.

HypnoticAquatic

· #9 · Dec 11, 2010

that does seem just like impatients. also just because you dont see a plant pearling doesnt mean its not growning as fast as one that is an visaversa as there are factors that come into roll on why you can cant see it. shut your filters off and you should be able to see them pearl thus it shouldnt be used as a way of judging that a plant is isnt growing. you can have co² way over 30ppm and with a fast current you will not see the bubbles due to how much surface contact the tiny o² bubbles get. hell i can get it with any addtional co² with just light coming through the window so it shows again that there are many other inportant factors to have a healthy plant.

Amazonfish

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 11, 2010

mistergreen: I've tried upping the bubble count, but the fish seem like they're breathing faster when I do that. They're not at the top of the tank or anything, but I still don't want any distressed fish!

captain_bu: Good point. I should've addressed that. The problem before was that I neglected the tank (stopped dosing for a little while...) and the tank went algae crazy. it was a thin layer of green fuzz on the glass and GSA on the plants and glass. How did I solve it? I got frustrated and took all the plants out. I did many water changes, turned the lights down a whole lot, and waited a month (kept doing weekly water changes though, because there were fish in there). Then I was ready to try again.

HypnoticAquatic: I completely understand all of that. The main issue isn't necessarily the plants not pearling, but the fact that they're not growing. The crowns of most of the plants are getting narrower and narrower. That's what I'm using to determine that they're not growing.

Thanks for everyone's help so far though :redface:

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Hoppy

· #11 · Dec 12, 2010

Amazonfish said:
mistergreen: I've tried upping the bubble count, but the fish seem like they're breathing faster when I do that. They're not at the top of the tank or anything, but I still don't want any distressed fish!

The reason for using a drop checker is to stop us from being too "gun shy" to raise the CO2 bubble rate up to the level it needs to be. Before I used one I was always convinced my fish were on the border of mass deaths, gasping, breathing hard, giving me angry looks, etc. But, when I got the drop checker working I found I had about 1/4 or less of the ppm of CO2 I needed. When I raised the bubble rate, the fish didn't act any differently. After I finally got the drop checker green the fish still acted the same way. I think those little monsters are great fakers.

j-gens

· #12 · Dec 12, 2010

in order to get pearling i would think the dissolved oxygen level would have to be high also... if there is little oxygen in the water the oxygen the plants are giving off would be absorbed into the water column before you could see a build up in a "pearl"... this could be a contributing factor dependant on your setup

Amazonfish

Discussion Starter · #13 · Dec 12, 2010

Hoppy said:
The reason for using a drop checker is to stop us from being too "gun shy" to raise the CO2 bubble rate up to the level it needs to be. Before I used one I was always convinced my fish were on the border of mass deaths, gasping, breathing hard, giving me angry looks, etc. But, when I got the drop checker working I found I had about 1/4 or less of the ppm of CO2 I needed. When I raised the bubble rate, the fish didn't act any differently. After I finally got the drop checker green the fish still acted the same way. I think those little monsters are great fakers.

Drop checker is bright green! :redface: And yup, I'm using a KH standard that I got from GLA. Although, I can still try to up the rate a little when I'm home all day and see if the fish do anything else. But... not tomorrow. I have a HUGE super important pathology exam on Monday. TPT is my 10 minute break between 3 hour study blocks. :biggrin:

BTW, I really really REALLY appreciate everyone's help on this. I know it takes extra effort to help someone out and you guys have been great.

mattycakesclark

· #14 · Dec 12, 2010

j-gens said:
in order to get pearling i would think the dissolved oxygen level would have to be high also... if there is little oxygen in the water the oxygen the plants are giving off would be absorbed into the water column before you could see a build up in a "pearl"... this could be a contributing
factor dependant on your setup

+1 - I thought pearling is a sign that your water has reached O2 saturation at that specific temperature. Surface agitation, currents, light plant stocking compared to tank volume I would think would all effect pearling. If I were to stuff all my plants from a 20 gallon tall into a 10 gallon, dosed, co2, I would think the plants would saturate my tank in O2 quick, pearling in the 10, where I do not get such in the 20. The converse might apply.

mordalphus

· #15 · Dec 12, 2010

Also the warmer the tank, the more pearling, probably because warmer water cannot hold as much dissolved oxygen.

Amazonfish

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 12, 2010

j-gens said:
in order to get pearling i would think the dissolved oxygen level would have to be high also... if there is little oxygen in the water the oxygen the plants are giving off would be absorbed into the water column before you could see a build up in a "pearl"... this could be a contributing factor dependant on your setup

After seeing the extra comments, I think you're right. The plant density is lower in the 50 than in the 25, and that would also explain the absence of "pearling".

The 25 is due for a trim, so I'll transplant some of those plants into the 50. I'll update this thread at the end of the week with the progress.

Thanks everyone for your advice!

happi

· #17 · Dec 12, 2010

just to prove what causes pearling i have tried this:

added 165 watts on my 50g and increased the co2 and it started pearling and the same effect did not occur with the 108 watts

snausage

· #18 · Dec 14, 2010

Perhaps the two hobs are agitating the water surface too much and de-gassing a substantial portion of your co2.

j-gens

· #19 · Dec 14, 2010

then his drop checker would not be the correct color...

happi - that does not necessarily prove that is what causes pearling... there are many other factors at hand other than just light and co2... while your experiment may have driven photosynthesis in your plants faster causing more o2 release does not mean before your pearling there was no photosynthesis taking place...

it only shows that it is not happening rapidly enough to saturate the water column with o2 and allowing the actual buildup of oxygen on the plants in a pearl...

in order for a pearl to happen on a plant, the water column has to have more o2 than can saturate into the water... if the water column does not have sufficient o2 it will just dissolve into the column without you ever seeing it in a "pearl". what you see as a pearl is excess o2 in your tank that cant readily dissolve into the water... you will get more pearling from more photosynthesis

although some people will mistake co2 mist on the undersides of leaves as pearling also... co2 mist will cling to plants and look like a pearl

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