Plants dying slowly...What am i missing?

1851 Views 15 Replies 4 Participants Last post by catfishmeows, Nov 16, 2010

catfishmeows

Discussion Starter · Nov 15, 2010

Hey guys sorry if this is a repost of simple questions...but apparently im missing something/doing something wrong...

Im currently running a 50 gallon Acrylic Corner tank /w built in overflow
(will have pictures up by tonight hopefully) i dont know the exact gallons since the dimensions are weird and i purchased it from some guy.

Overflow was modded to have a 3" waterfall (added longer tube)
Currently Running 96 watts of 50/50 (dont plan on changing this until it blows)
Going to add 130 watts by this weekend (x2 65w 6700k coming in the mail)
Co2 is injected at 2 bubbles per sec directly into the return pump inside of the sump (even distribution through tank?)
No carbon added
Temp: 80-82F
Got about 15-20 tropical fish in it
Plants: nothing fancy...hornworts, vals, dwarf baby tears (2 pots), jungle vals, java fern, anubis nanas,

Currently dosing dry method: 1 teaspoon of K2so4, 1/2 teaspoon of CaKNO3, 1/2 teaspoon of CSM+B, aprox 10-15 ppm's of Nitrates via Flourish Nitrate (i say approx cause the test kit/colors are pretty hard to read)
25-40% water change weekly

so far I purchased K2SO4, CaKNO3, CSM+B from aquariumfertilizer.com and plan on purchasing some more chemicals as soon as i get some recommendations from you guys.
(i asked for KNO3 and was sent CaKNO3...probably my mistake...currently have 500ml Flourish nitrates to make up for it)

My Questions:

Jungle Vals are dying off/not growing to well...dwarf baby tears seem to be dying off as well...every other plant seems to be growing great...
Hornworts are growing very thin/fast (but i never got them to grow thick in all my years of having them)

is this a fert/light deficiency?
Im assuming not enough wattage since its a tall tank (about 24" in height

What other dry fert do you recommend i purchase? (im definitely buying KNO3 to replace the flourish nitrogen)

should i point my outtake jets towards the surface to create movement?

Should i add an air pump/air stone inside of the tank?

- I appreciate everyones efforts/time/input and thank you in advance

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1 - 16 of 16 Posts

captain_bu

· #2 · Nov 15, 2010

My guess is that your CO2 is inadequate. How are you monitoring CO2 levels? Do you have a drop checker? Your overflow is probably causing a lot of CO2 loss.

FWIW... adding more light without establishing proper CO2 levels is only going to make things worse.

catfishmeows

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 15, 2010

i have a bubble counter attached onto the co2 tank

2bps is not enough? i thought many recommended 2-3bps

as for the overflow tom barre said it was okay as long as the drop point is only 2-3" o.o

captain_bu

· #4 · Nov 15, 2010

A bubble counter is used to monitor the bubble rate. The bubble rate is only useful to be able to have a reference point so that when you increase or decrease CO2 you have some idea how much more or less you are injecting. You can't go by other people's bubble rate. Bubbles can be all different sizes depending on the working pressure, type of needle valve and fluid used in the bubble counter. So, bubble rate does not monitor how much CO2 you actually have in the water column available for the plants.

A drop checker using 4 dKH water and bromothymol blue (standard pH measuring fluid) as a reagent is used to monitor how much CO2 is actually in the water column and available to the plants. When the water in the drop checker turns green it means you have approximately 30 ppm of CO2 which is a safe level for your fish and a good level for your plants. From there you can tweak the bubble rate up a bit slowly if you want while watching your fish for signs of stress. Always do this slowly and never when you are not going to be home to watch the tank since it is easy to kill your fish if you are not careful.

To counteract the gassing off of CO2 that the overflow causes you just turn the CO2 up a bit. The overflow is okay as long as you turn up CO2 to compensate. A bubble counter will help you find the sweet spot more quickly.

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Hoppy

· #5 · Nov 15, 2010

Depending on the particular 96 watt PC light you have, you may not have enough light even for low light plants. Those PC fixtures have been made with everything from non-existent reflectors to very good reflectors. If yours has a poor or no reflector you won't have even low light. What are the dimensions of the tank?

catfishmeows

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 15, 2010

Dimentions - 24 H x 38 L (semi bow front) x 24 W...see picture to see what i mean by semi bowfront

im not sure what PC light means but its a compact fluorescent light with a metal reflector (retro fit...see pictures)

Having trouble trying to use this picture thing...soo im just gona post the direct link...

http://s1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc414/ryubui/?action=view&current=DSC01543.jpg

http://s1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc414/ryubui/?action=view&current=DSC01539.jpg

http://s1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc414/ryubui/?action=view&current=DSC01540.jpg

http://s1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc414/ryubui/?action=view&current=DSC01541.jpg

sorry i couldnt find an easier way of doing this.

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Hoppy

· #7 · Nov 16, 2010

The photo shows what I call a PC (Power Compact) light, with a very poor reflector. The reflector should be much wider than the bulb to be effective. Yours doesn't leave much room for light to get around the bulb from the back of the bulb. With that light you don't have enough for any plants except possibly mosses and a very few others. If you had good CO2 along with that light you could grow a few more plants, but it would still be less than normally used for low light tanks.

A 24 inch high tank, with the light right at the top of the tank, needs a single bulb T5HO, two bulb T5NO, or a single bulb AH Supply quality PC light to get adequate light for plants. The shape of the tank also makes it difficult for a single bulb to light the back corner very well.

ryan-fishtanktv

· #8 · Nov 16, 2010

your substrate might not be adequate
check your c02 and if that isnt it try this
i failed with my first tank completely
and now i am using this method and so far having success
http://www.fishtanktv.com/dirt-in-fishtank/dirt-convert-3-congrats-david-looking-good-man/

catfishmeows

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 16, 2010

That mud method seems very...workful...i dont think i wana shut down a tall tank and try that the opening on the acrylic top isnt hand friendly

As for gravel its a mixture of flourite and Bio..stuff for plants...ive seen many planted tanks with this mixture and they seem to do fine

Gona add another 130 watts to the tank so that should help with the lightning issue i hope.

I also increased the co2 rate to 2-3 bps soo lets see how that works out...as for the Co2 reader im gona grab me one at the petstore.

as for Ferts anyone recommend me purchasing something i dont have?

Hoppy

· #10 · Nov 16, 2010

catfishmeows said:
That mud method seems very...workful...i dont think i wana shut down a tall tank and try that the opening on the acrylic top isnt hand friendly

As for gravel its a mixture of flourite and Bio..stuff for plants...ive seen many planted tanks with this mixture and they seem to do fine

Gona add another 130 watts to the tank so that should help with the lightning issue i hope.

I also increased the co2 rate to 2-3 bps soo lets see how that works out...as for the Co2 reader im gona grab me one at the petstore.

as for Ferts anyone recommend me purchasing something i dont have?

Until you get the lighting up into the medium light area you don't really need to dose fertilizers. Remember, the light intensity is what determines the plant growth rate, and the growth rate determines how much nutrients you need to supply.

Does the 130 watt - two 65 watt bulbs, I presume - fixture or fixtures have good reflectors, roughly 3-4 inches wide, contoured so you see multiple bulbs when you look up at the bulbs? If so, that may get you enough light to get the plants growing.

catfishmeows

Discussion Starter · #11 · Nov 16, 2010

i have retrofit kits for them that have reflectors the size of the bulb. I bought the tank used this way and dont have money to spend on new reflectors soo until then hahaha...

is there a DIY product i can buy at say home depot/lowes to fix this problem? how about mirrors...are they good reflectors?

Im getting the bulbs this week so im gona need to know what other ferts i need...

thanks again for all the help

ryan-fishtanktv

· #12 · Nov 16, 2010

catfishmeows said:
That mud method seems very...workful...i dont think i wana shut down a tall tank and try that the opening on the acrylic top isnt hand friendly

As for gravel its a mixture of flourite and Bio..stuff for plants...ive seen many planted tanks with this mixture and they seem to do fine

Gona add another 130 watts to the tank so that should help with the lightning issue i hope.

I also increased the co2 rate to 2-3 bps soo lets see how that works out...as for the Co2 reader im gona grab me one at the petstore.

as for Ferts anyone recommend me purchasing something i dont have?

i agree it is a lot of work in the beginning but once you complete this step there is much less maintenance. I would argue to say that a dirt fish tank is less maintenance then a non dirt, because once established you don't need to add anything all you need is water changes.

Hoppy

· #13 · Nov 16, 2010

catfishmeows said:
i have retrofit kits for them that have reflectors the size of the bulb. I bought the tank used this way and dont have money to spend on new reflectors soo until then hahaha...

is there a DIY product i can buy at say home depot/lowes to fix this problem? how about mirrors...are they good reflectors?

Im getting the bulbs this week so im gona need to know what other ferts i need...

thanks again for all the help

If you buy very thin sheet aluminum, you can easily bend it to a shape like \__/ which is an effective reflector. You don't have to do an ultra polishing job on the aluminum, just a minor polish, so it isn't dirty or dull finished. I found that shape will double the PAR readings with screw-in CFL bulbs. But, it has to be about twice the width of the bulb.

Bending sheet metal is easy with two boards clamped together with the sheet metal between, with the fold line just outside the boards. Then use a 3rd board to press against the aluminum adjacent to the fold line, and it bends very neatly.

catfishmeows

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 16, 2010

where can i find this thin sheet aluminum?

that sounds like an easy project

Hoppy

· #15 · Nov 16, 2010

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 is a good material to make reflectors from, but a lot more of it than you need. I got mine from a local store that sells surplus metals, where I could buy the stuff by the yard. I got one yard for about $3 as I recall.

catfishmeows

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 16, 2010

cool ill keep an eye out for that stuff

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