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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
3 years ago, i used to have frontosa and Oscar fish. 8 months ago i started having discus, neon and some plants, after 5 months, developed to have full planted tank, 1.5 centimeter of substrate and 4 centimeter of gravel :icon_smil, it was magnificent.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=9721&pictureid=13985

the plants were growing well and very fast, i used to run the lights and co2 1 bubble/sec. for 12-14 hour a day, my swords grows up to 80 centimeters and so other plants till i started cutting the edges.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=9721&pictureid=14001

after tow months :icon_excl, i discovered some hair algae and alot of black spots on the leafs. i hocked a UV sterilizer, used my hands to get the hair algae out of my tank lost a lot of plants because i cut the damaged plants with black spots, i used a fish care specialist (green a way), turned the lights off for 2 days, i changed 30% of tap water, then i used (Nitrifying Bacteria 14 in 1), it works to get rid of the algae.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=9729&pictureid=14033

but now after (2 weeks) is the horrible thing :mad:. my plants color gets light green, yellow and some of them became like a Sieve as shown in my photo album no3.
my Tank is a 29 gallons.
120 ltr of tap water, Temperature 83 F.
60w 10000 k & 40w 6500 k.
ph controller, co2 kit fixed at 6.85 through the day, but goes up to 8.01 at night.
UV sterilizer 11watt.
2 discus and a bout 35 tetras, neon, rummy nose, red eye, Green fire and zebra, all of them are small size.
 

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Mustafa - you will need to read up on plant nutrients. Besides CO2, plants need macro and micro nutrients. It sounds/looks like your macros (NPK) have run out, which will stop plant growth and eventually kill them. No plant growth also results in algae, and while you can add all sort of algae killers it doesn't resolve the situation. Forget about the algae and focus on your plants. Healthy growing plants are the best algae killer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
alot of thanks to you Wasserpest

Hello my dear Waeeerpest
i used these essential nutrients before and added 50 ml of Tetra Plant plantaMin to the water, that was 4 weeks ago, but after i added it i faced the hair algae so i stopped adding it again, i was afraid, because i thought it promotes the algae, the planta Min contains iron & manganese & other macro nutrients such as potassium. so, is it ok to add an other 50ml of plantaMin again or not ( the instructions said to use it every 4 weeks ).
 

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Most of the commercially available aquarium plant nutrients do not contain (at least in noticeable amounts) Nitrates or Phosphates. Yet both are required for healthy plant growth.

Adding nutrients per se does not lead to algae, however, if your plants are already dying, or some other nutrient is missing, it might seem like it. Google "Liebigs law of the minimum" for a good visualization.

Plants need ALL nutrients in small amounts. Adding something every 4 weeks seems not a very good approach. Most of us dose DAILY.

So... my recommendation would be to get some KNO3 and KH2PO4 (if available where you live), read up on dosing, and then start in small amounts, and monitor your tank over longer periods. Yes, initially you might get an increase in algae, as your plants are not in their best shape to process the nutrients and grow. Perhaps adding some healthy plant mass along with the nutrients would be a good idea too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i appreciate your effort in helping me

Most of the commercially available aquarium plant nutrients do not contain (at least in noticeable amounts) Nitrates or Phosphates. Yet both are required for healthy plant growth.

Adding nutrients per se does not lead to algae, however, if your plants are already dying, or some other nutrient is missing, it might seem like it. Google "Liebigs law of the minimum" for a good visualization.

Plants need ALL nutrients in small amounts. Adding something every 4 weeks seems not a very good approach. Most of us dose DAILY.

So... my recommendation would be to get some KNO3 and KH2PO4 (if available where you live), read up on dosing, and then start in small amounts, and monitor your tank over longer periods. Yes, initially you might get an increase in algae, as your plants are not in their best shape to process the nutrients and grow. Perhaps adding some healthy plant mass along with the nutrients would be a good idea too.
would you please take a look to my photo album no:3 to evaluate my situation. by the way today i bought "Test 6 in 1" to test my water, i think the kh & gh are very hi. when i make the test i will post the results to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
my water test results

i used the Tetra Test 6 in 1 and this is the results

no3 : 100
no2 : between 1-5
gh : 16 degree
kh : 20 degree
ph : 8.0
cl2 : zeero
 

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There are a lot of things going on here:

1) First, you have an awfully long photoperiod. Plants need "sleep" just like we do, and perform different tasks during the times of light and darkness. Though it's a matter of opinion, I'd say 12 hours max is acceptable, 10 hours preferable. Your health will gradually decline if you consistently get too little sleep, and so will your plants; even if they seem to be doing well at first.

2) Then, it sounds like you shortened leaves on your swords by cutting them. While I'm not sure about your swords in particular, not all plants tolerate this well. Leaves injured by cutting can slowly die off over weeks or months, and unhealthy leaves attract algae like a magnet. This may have been a major contributing factor to the algae's first appearance, though it may not have been the only factor. It's usually better to remove whole leaves. New ones will soon appear to replace what you remove.

3) Next, you used UV. This is really only effective against fine algae suspended in the water, like green water. It can't touch the hair algae already securely attached to plants, though it may kill the occasional fragment that breaks off before it has a chance to reattach elsewhere. UV also breaks down iron in the water, changing it into a form that precipitates out to the bottom of the tank, and that plants can't directly use. As it sounds like you're dosing all nutrients by adding them to the water, unless you compensated for this by dosing additional iron, you may have starved your plants of this essential nutrient.

4) Finally, you used "green a way". If by this you are referring to Interpet's Green Away, it too is only effective against green water; causing the fine suspended algae to clump together so it can be filtered out. Totally useless for your algae. While it sounds as if it would normally be safe, any chemical treatment has potential for harm, especially if plants or other tank inhabitants are already weakened.

A lot of small errors and unintended side effects, all compounded together into one big problem.

I think others are already covering possibilities of nutrient deficiency quite well, so I'll leave that to them; other than the UV/iron interaction I already commented on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Most of the commercially available aquarium plant nutrients do not contain (at least in noticeable amounts) Nitrates or Phosphates. Yet both are required for healthy plant growth.

Adding nutrients per se does not lead to algae, however, if your plants are already dying, or some other nutrient is missing, it might seem like it. Google "Liebigs law of the minimum" for a good visualization.

Plants need ALL nutrients in small amounts. Adding something every 4 weeks seems not a very good approach. Most of us dose DAILY.

So... my recommendation would be to get some KNO3 and KH2PO4 (if available where you live), read up on dosing, and then start in small amounts, and monitor your tank over longer periods. Yes, initially you might get an increase in algae, as your plants are not in their best shape to process the nutrients and grow. Perhaps adding some healthy plant mass along with the nutrients would be a good idea too.

ok dear Wasserpest
1- i started adding the planta Min daily 2ml, it contains iron, manganese, potassium & other macro nutrients.
i will ask about the KNO3 , KH2PO4 at agriculture stores but my be they don't know the dosage because they don't know about fish and water plants.
2- my water test shows that i have high levels Gh 16 Kh 20 and No2 about 1.5 tommorow i will get Ro water Tds 25
and change 50% of the tank to lower the Gh and Kh but why i have high level No2 ?? and how do i solve these things
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hello Blazingwolf

your situation is you need nutrients. it is very apparent

nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, calcium, magnesium, manganese, iron, zinc, boron, sulfer, copper, and any others i missed
thanks for caring, my dear,
please read my answer to Waeeerpest about nutrients, note: i have fish and plants in my Tank,
how do i test nh3/nh4
 

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While I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as the other posters, maybe my experience will offer encouragement.

I had "beginner" plants (java fern, anubias, swords, hygro) for over a 1 year my in aquarium, and while they never thrived they survived growing very slowly. Algae problems were dealt with by buying algae eaters. Mostly newly introduced plants would melt or be consumed by algae. I tried dosing with Seachem Flourish and upgraded lights. All I got was more algae and faster plant death.

After much resistance I started giving in...dosing with Excel, then root tabs, then liquid fertz, then CO2, then dry fertz. With each step I saw incremental improvement and I've finally reached a stable state where there's good, healthy growth with minimal algae. Results weren't instant, it always took 1-2 weeks to notice a change, sometimes longer for sickly or slow growing plants.

So let me confirm everything that others have said is absolutely true -- macro & micro fertilizers in addition to the CO2 and good lights are an absolute must.

This thread is a must read: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello DarkCobra

There are a lot of things going on here:

1) First, you have an awfully long photoperiod. Plants need "sleep" just like we do, and perform different tasks during the times of light and darkness. Though it's a matter of opinion, I'd say 12 hours max is acceptable, 10 hours preferable. Your health will gradually decline if you consistently get too little sleep, and so will your plants; even if they seem to be doing well at first.

2) Then, it sounds like you shortened leaves on your swords by cutting them. While I'm not sure about your swords in particular, not all plants tolerate this well. Leaves injured by cutting can slowly die off over weeks or months, and unhealthy leaves attract algae like a magnet. This may have been a major contributing factor to the algae's first appearance, though it may not have been the only factor. It's usually better to remove whole leaves. New ones will soon appear to replace what you remove.

3) Next, you used UV. This is really only effective against fine algae suspended in the water, like green water. It can't touch the hair algae already securely attached to plants, though it may kill the occasional fragment that breaks off before it has a chance to reattach elsewhere. UV also breaks down iron in the water, changing it into a form that precipitates out to the bottom of the tank, and that plants can't directly use. As it sounds like you're dosing all nutrients by adding them to the water, unless you compensated for this by dosing additional iron, you may have starved your plants of this essential nutrient.

4) Finally, you used "green a way". If by this you are referring to Interpet's Green Away, it too is only effective against green water; causing the fine suspended algae to clump together so it can be filtered out. Totally useless for your algae. While it sounds as if it would normally be safe, any chemical treatment has potential for harm, especially if plants or other tank inhabitants are already weakened.

A lot of small errors and unintended side effects, all compounded together into one big problem.

I think others are already covering possibilities of nutrient deficiency quite well, so I'll leave that to them; other than the UV/iron interaction I already commented on.
Mr. DarkCobra, thanks for fully explaining my situation and giving answers to solve it.
1- since a while i hocked a timer to the 100w of Aqua. lights just for 11 hours a day.
2- i will follow the advice.
3- after i used the uv sterilizer and turning the lights of for 2 days, i made a 30% water change then i put the iron, manganese & other macro nutrients such as potassium, but, yea you are right, i may have starved my plants of the essential nutrient, because i started using it 2 months after Cultivating it.
4- i used a little of algae remover (green a way) as prescribed, but it's right this may be harmful for the plants but commercially they don't admit it. Note: now i don't have that much algae as before, the uv & green a way helps getting rid of the swimming algae, i took out the hair by hands and turned the lights off for 48 houres.
"""" A lot of small errors and unintended side effects, all compounded together into one big problem"""
 

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i used the Tetra Test 6 in 1 and this is the results

no3 : 100
no2 : between 1-5
gh : 16 degree
kh : 20 degree
ph : 8.0
cl2 : zeero
Well, this comes a bit as a surprise. If that is true, then you have an excess of Nitrates. And Nitrites should be zero. KH and GH are a bit on the high side, possibly you are using a substrate that is not completely inert?

One thing you might want to do is to "calibrate" your test kit by testing different water sources with known parameters. You might know what is in your tap water, so you could verify that. You could also test some distilled water which should show as zero NO3 and NO2.

Keep in mind that the "test strips" are not very precise. Still should give you a rough estimate. If you confirm your test results, it might be good to increase your regular water changes. NO2 is poisonous for fish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well, this comes a bit as a surprise. If that is true, then you have an excess of Nitrates. And Nitrites should be zero. KH and GH are a bit on the high side, possibly you are using a substrate that is not completely inert?

One thing you might want to do is to "calibrate" your test kit by testing different water sources with known parameters. You might know what is in your tap water, so you could verify that. You could also test some distilled water which should show as zero NO3 and NO2.

Keep in mind that the "test strips" are not very precise. Still should give you a rough estimate. If you confirm your test results, it might be good to increase your regular water changes. NO2 is poisonous for fish.
that's why i wrote that the no2 is between 1-5 because the test strip color wasn't clear and i don't have any fish dieing, a couple of days i will repeat the test.
thank you again, today we had snow, i feel a sleep, good night.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Agricultural fertilizers

today i visited the agriculture store equipment.
he said, he is not sure if his fertilizers which is used for flowers, trees, vegetables, fruit trees, orchards ... will be safe to my fish.
it's brand name is " Grow more ", it's a Turquoise Grains 100% water soluble fertilizer concentrate for foliar and soil applications.
N : 20
P : 20
K : 20
Fe:0.10%
Zn:0.05%
Cu:0.05%
Mg:0.10%
Mn:0.05%
Mo:0.0005%
B :0.02%
Ca:0.05%
S :0.20%
is there an expert who can encourage me using this staff in my planted tank, note that, also i have fish in the tank.
 

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There are usually two issues when using a terrestrial fertilizer in an aquatic environment.

First is the source of nitrogen. Terrestrial fertilizers typically use "ammoniacal" nitrogen sources - meaning ammonia producing. These are safe and effective on land, and being cheap to produce, we can assume this is what it contains. But ammonia, being fish waste, is of course harmful to fish. Aquatic fertilizers primarily use more expensive nitrate based nitrogen sources, which being the same as the end product of the ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate biological filtration process, are much better tolerated.

Second is the copper content. Copper in excessive quantities is also toxic in an aquatic environment. Compare the ratios of your fertilizer:

Fe: 0.10%
Cu: 0.05%

To CSM+B, a commonly used concentrated micronutrient source, that contains no N/P/K and so is used in much smaller quantity:

Fe: 7.0%
Cu: 0.1%

Adjusting the dosages to provide the same amount of iron (a good reference point for comparison), the CSM+B provides about 35 times less copper! Even if you had not provided a chemical breakdown, the turquoise color - characteristic of copper sulfate - is still a giveaway to high copper content.

Such a fertilizer can only be safely used in reduced quantity. Further reduced if fish are present, and further still with sensitive fauna like shrimp. Given that you have fish, and a high nutrient demand due to your light and CO2, I don't think this will be of much use to you.

You're already getting too much nitrogen (as nitrates) from fish food, which will need to be reduced with water changes. I'd try to reduce them by half to 50ppm. Once this is achieved, given the typical composition of fish food, that will probably put your phosphates at about 10ppm, which is also acceptable.

What fish food lacks is potassium (K), plus iron and the other trace micronutrients. If you can find a source of pure potassium sulfate, plus a micronutrient mix with high iron and low copper (like CSM+B), you'd be set.
 

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This is what I use since my build in September 2012.
1 tablespoon of each. Potassium, nitrate, sulfate, Mag. sulfate, Plantex CSM+B to 500ml of boiled cooled water. Dosing is 15ml every other day or as needed in my 120 fatboy. I only run 4 t5HO 6500K for 5 hrs a day, C02 injected into inline reactor to canister filter. I use tap water and I don't really test my water because I'm not so good at it. I use a PH controller which keeps my Ph level at 6.5. This is my results since September Pm me if you need source
THANKS to many of you on here and Minnfish who has helped me with my build
When I started


Half way

As of today 1-14-2013
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
After adding the fertilizers, my swords are getting too long again

Hello every body, my good friends,:), sorry for being away for a while, studying masters degree in music.
i took all your advices in eye of consideration, RO 30% water changes every week, getting lower levels of Gh & Kh, i planted another red and green plants, added root fertilizers 2 inches under the gravel, and a daily 10 drops of plantamin. After 2 weeks, all of the plants are growing up and my old swords are getting too long again. but i am afraid of having problems again, because the sword are now about 32 inches, it's covering the surface of the water.
Q: is this situation will lower the light levels for the other short plants.
 
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