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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have tried to do some research but i still have not found the answer needed. First i will go in the detail spec of my tank.
- 55 gallon standard with 2 sunsun canister filter and one has built in uv light + a sunsun circulation 570 g/h. Inline heater 79
- Fish : 7 young rainbow, 2 GBR, 2 Gold rams, 5 Tetra, 3 nitrate snails and 3 oto
- Co2 with diy rex grigg reactor. Tested the water with API drop kit today and have the following: + PH either 6.2 or 6.4
+ KH : green with 4 drops, yellow with 5
+ GH : 6 drops gets yellow.
- Lighting : Quad Zoomed Aquasun. Blubs are Zoomed Florasun+ Ultrasun, Coralife 6700+ Colormax. Light sits 3 inch from water, about 20 inch to substrate.
- Substrate is dirted MOGC with Blasting sand capped plus DIY O+ root tabs.
- Dosing : - EI method premix 500ml solutions. I boiled tap water then lets it cool to warm, felt by hand. Then i add the following :
+ Bottle one: 12 tsp x KNO3, 3 tsp x KH2PO4, 4tsp x K2SO4
+ Bottle two : 6 tsp x CSM + B, 2 tsp x FE Chelate 10%
- I do weekly maintenance as 50-70% water change and clean both canister filters every two weeks. After the tank is filled again, i dose excel follow the instruction as an initial dose. I also dose half instruction of API algae fix.

And here is my story and my question:
- I used to have very nice carpet of glosso back to the day i used diy co2 with finnex ray 2. But then it started melting and float up afterward. I upgraded to pressurize system but couldnt help coming back so i rescaped the whole tank. I then had nice carpet forming again but not for long as i had an attack with all type of algaes ( includes those exist in new set up) but i expected that as a new tank subtrate. I used "one two punch" and killed them all, actually 3 bunches. I now have took the carpet up, removed dead stuffs then replant the glossostigma and i also have a new t5ho which is listed above at this time. I doubt that this light is enough to make them spread.
- Now to the ludwigia, i used to have a bunch of them, all died off but i blamed the diy co2 and finnex ray 2. But then after upgraded everything, they still died off from me. Here is what i have left from a bunch. I would have removed them but they still show new leaves coming, that i hate the most.


- Next is my starougyne repen 049. Got them bounced back after the shipment but now they are melting off one by one. Pictures below show them and also those algae that i believe are diatoms are coming back too.





My question is : Can someone please address what problems i am having and what i should fix please.

P/S note that, not everything in my tank is dying off. In my journal " the Chaos garden" others are healthy and weedy growing.

Thank you very much in advance.
 

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My question is : Can someone please address what problems i am having and what i should fix please.
I can help you sort out your plant growth problems, but taking care of the algae will take a while. When plants grow healthily there is usually very little algae in the tank, so that should be our primary goal.

- Substrate is dirted MOGC with Blasting sand capped plus DIY O+ root tabs.
- Dosing : - EI method premix 500ml solutions. I boiled tap water then lets it cool to warm, felt by hand. Then i add the following :
+ Bottle one: 12 tsp x KNO3, 3 tsp x KH2PO4, 4tsp x K2SO4
+ Bottle two : 6 tsp x CSM + B, 2 tsp x FE Chelate 10%
Why are you dosing EI and using soil? That defeats the purpose of using soil. I suggest you choose one or the other, not both. It is possible to overdose nutrients and cause damage to plants.

The look of your plants, especially the ludwigia's dead new growth is not consistent with a nutrient deficiency, it is more consistent with a toxicity of some kind.

The plant damage may be caused by several possible toxicities. One might be an anaerobic substrate. Miracle grow soil is 100% made of organic material that can decay, this is one of the reasons I don't recommend using it, though it is possible to use it successfully. When organic material rots it uses up oxygen in the soil which cannot be easily replaced due to the soil cap. Plant roots need access to oxygen and so anaerobic substrates will eventually kill roots then stems and cause damage to plants near the substrate boundary. Furthermore, ammonia that is made from rotting material can burn and damage plant leaves leading to damage on new and old growth (looks like the dead ludwigia leaves). Adding Malaysian Trumpet Snails will help you prevent your substrate from rotting. The snails burrow into the soil and keep it turned over like earthworms - aerating it as they move. You can also poke holes in the soil with a stick to help aerate the soil.

After the tank is filled again, i dose excel follow the instruction as an initial dose. I also dose half instruction of API algae fix.
Adding algaecides may also cause the problems you are seeing. Despite the claims that some algaecides make they are not 100% plant safe. I would stop using them entirely and focus on making the plants happy. Happy plants usually always = no algae.

Excel can also damage plants especially when dosed in high amounts when plants may already be weakened and vulnerable from anaerobic substrates and algaecides. I'd discontinue using it for now. You can resume using it later on when the plants have had a chance to recover. The active ingredient is gluteraldehyde which is used my hospitals as an anticeptic. It cross links proteins and damages bacteria/fungi and other pathogens. It also damages certain species of algae and even certain species of plants which have less robust cell walls. Weakened plants are more likely to be damaged by excel instead of helped.

I doubt that this light is enough to make them spread.
I think your lighting is enough to keep the plants from deteriorating like they are in the photos.

Now to the ludwigia, i used to have a bunch of them, all died off but i blamed the diy co2 and finnex ray 2. But then after upgraded everything, they still died off from me. Here is what i have left from a bunch. I would have removed them but they still show new leaves coming, that i hate the most.
A lack of CO2 would not cause these symptoms at all. The type of damage affecting your plants may in other situations result in similar looking plant damage, but given your lighting and the other things going on in your tank I doubt it is due to lighting.

- Next is my starougyne repen 049. Got them bounced back after the shipment but now they are melting off one by one.
Staurogyne repens is known to periodically melt in a similar way to crypts when disturbed. Shipping will often cause the melt to begin, and sometimes when it grows too densely in established tanks. The leaves will die and the bare stem will remain. Within a week or two in good conditions it will put out new leaves and begin growing normally again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I can help you sort out your plant growth problems, but taking care of the algae will take a while. When plants grow healthily there is usually very little algae in the tank, so that should be our primary goal.QUOTE]

Thank you very much for your responses, Zapins. :thumbsup: Yours have answer most of my questions and also gave me some new term to look into.
- The reason of me using soil and dosing EI is very simple. I always think that using soil will give plant's root a strong long term nutrition. Adding EI is giving the plants nutrition in the water column that plants will absorb through their stems and their root that is not buried under. I have not heard about overdose nutrition will damage the plants. Any source or more explanation please.
- The toxicity that you mentioned is something that i will have to look into as today i observe my red lud sp in my other dirt tank ( non or low co2) are surviving better than they are in this tank. I will stop overdosing excel and the algae-fix first. Then probably gonna get some Malaysian trumpet snail.

Thank you again for your response. It really helps a lot!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

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The reason of me using soil and dosing EI is very simple. I always think that using soil will give plant's root a strong long term nutrition. Adding EI is giving the plants nutrition in the water column that plants will absorb through their stems and their root that is not buried under. I have not heard about overdose nutrition will damage the plants. Any source or more explanation please.
In general most species of plants will do well with one or the other form of fertilization. Nutrients absorbed by roots, stems or leaves are transported inside the plant to new tissue. Most nutrients are not toxic in large amounts, mainly only the micro nutrients like iron, boron, copper, etc cause problems when overdosed. I've included a couple of links for background reading:

This is another person's thread where they had soil and used too many traces the symptoms are similar to yours:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=476929

This thread discusses micro nutrient toxicity using (CSM+B):
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=503585

This thread discusses ammonia toxicity, and some other related concerns:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=503209&highlight=csm+toxicity

Here is another discussion thread with more info and a bit of a summary of the other ones mentioned above:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=517945&highlight=csm+toxicity

If you are interested I can dig up a few more threads on using Miracle grow soil and various issues and what people did to solve them. The threads don't really offer much more info than the threads above but if you are looking for sources I can find them.

- The toxicity that you mentioned is something that i will have to look into as today i observe my red lud sp in my other dirt tank ( non or low co2) are surviving better than they are in this tank. I will stop overdosing excel and the algae-fix first. Then probably gonna get some Malaysian trumpet snail.
If you are interested in finding out more about deficiency symptoms you can look through the database I'm making. It is not complete yet but it has enough information to get you going and recognizing several common nutrient deficiencies:
www.deficiencyfinder.com

Thank you again for your response. It really helps a lot!!!!
No problem zetvi, deficiencies/toxicities/plant problems are my passion I enjoy figuring out what causes them.
 
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