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Does it really bother you? Is the air-pump not stable and-- making a hum or vibration-- because it needs to be put on a piece of styrofoam or other stabilizing surface? I have air pumps in all 4 of my fish-tanks in my den and can barely hear them.

Edit: I meant to attach this to OP's post but, it tagged you instead @Plinkploop. Obviously this question is for @Bent17 :)
馃榿馃憤
 

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Not sure if this is a hint but all my fish are swimming on one side.. coincidentally co2 just turned off
This is a strong indication of heater and/or circulation problems. Is your water temperature the same and stable throughout the tank?
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Yeah I mean I soundproofed everything and now this bugger is noisy as hell.. thanks!

This is a strong indication of heater and/or circulation problems. Is your water temperature the same and stable throughout the tank?
Yeah its a constant 25.5c i have a digital temp on the opposite side and its correct..

So yest before the airstone was on I was seeing a Rasboras all alone and swimming kinda funny.. this morning I found it dead.....
 

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I'm sorry for your loss. It seems like there's something (disease or infection) going on in your tank. Can you describe how it was swimming before it died? Was it freaking out and darting around the tank? Was it having trouble keeping itself upright? It might help with diagnosis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I'm sorry for your loss. It seems like there's something (disease or infection) going on in your tank. Can you describe how it was swimming before it died? Was it freaking out and darting around the tank? Was it having trouble keeping itself upright? It might help with diagnosis.
What I realised is that it was swimming all alone at the top part of the tank but not at the surface gasping for air. It was just floating not moving around.. As soon as I saw it I realised its on the way out.. So it was like that right before I put on the air stone for the first time..

Also - Will the airstone increase or decrease my PH or keep it as it is?
 

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An airstone will speed up degassing a bit but not enough to upset fish or plants any and not significantly more than would normally happen overnight anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
An airstone will speed up degassing a bit but not enough to upset fish or plants any and not significantly more than would normally happen overnight anyway.
As I am trying to regulate as much as possible PH with co2 on and off so I dont have any PH drops...
 

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Co2 based ph drops won't really affect your fish as much as you think they do. I've maintained tanks (not my own) with ph drops of 1.2 with no issues whatsoever. If you're not consistent with your co2 you're more likely to harm your plants which will hurt your fish more than the ph fluctuation. Did you check the water parameters at the time you noticed your fish acting funny?
 

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I鈥檒l repeat myself just to make sure you see it鈥

The old philosophy that pH fluctuations kill fish is only partially correct, but ONLY when you鈥檙e dealing with a non-CO2 injected tank. Without CO2, pH fluctuations are being caused by a change in water hardness, which IS dangerous to fish. Changing amounts of Calcium, Magnesium, and Carbonates affect your fish鈥檚 osmotic regulation, which can kill them. We see changes in water hardness by seeing a change in pH, which leads people to believe that the changing pH is what is killing fish. In these cases, it IS NOT the change in pH that is killing fish, it鈥檚 the change in osmotic pressure.

The pH change from CO2 injection does not change your water hardness, and therefor does not negatively impact your fish. The Calcium, Magnesiuim, and Carbonates in your water does not change, so your fish will not have a change in osmotic pressure. The changing pH has zero impact on your livestock. This is evidenced by the thousands and thousands of planted tank enthusiasts who inject CO2, and never have fish deaths. There are probably a hundred or more active members of this community right now who inject CO2 to a pH change of greater than 1 point who don鈥檛 lose fish.

You should stop worrying about the pH change. You鈥檙e focusing on a Red Herring, and ignoring the other factors that are more likely the cause of your problems.
 

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This seems way more likely a disease/ infection or contaminant issue than a co2 issue. How often are you checking parameters?
 

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Hmm. Then it would seem you have a pathogen of some sort in your tank. There appeared to be some whitening on the rasbora. Hard to tell, though, it could be a bacterial or possibly columnaris. I'm not sure at all in this, though. It's hard for me to tell without personally observing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
I also now started getting an oubreak of staghorn.. would peroxide kill the columnaris as that would kill 2 birds with one stone
 

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I've only used peroxide as a spot treatment on beard algae. I don't know how it reacts with fish as far as trying to treat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Day 2 with airstone overnight and no dead fish this morning... So 24hrs without anything dead.

It couldnt be anything linked with my Minerals being applied to the tank right? I use this product and add 2 scoops with 50L of water. It will be pre mixed not directly placed into aquarium and also temp matched..

 

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Hi all. I have a 200L planted co2 injected tank and have been in this hobby for around 3 months now. I keep finding random fish dead early morning. Water parameters are all good and I even dose with ferts. Kh and gh are alos good. It seems to point to the PH swings in the tank which could be shocking them and dying thats why I find them dead in the morning.. PH with co2 on is 6.6 and with it off is 7.3.. what would you guys do to try regulate the ph? Would putting co2 on for 1hr and off for the other repetitively do the trick? Normal co2 runs for 7hrs sonlike this it would be on for around 4 hrs.. opinions and suggestions on this? Any one else has same issue like me?
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When I started up CO2 injection 4 months ago, I lost just one fish. From this experience, I learned a simple lesson. The initial CO2 injection change can be challenging for some fish that already may have some issues. You want to observe if after CO2 injection you start to see some fish start to dwell more at the surface taking breaths. This is a tell tale sign you simply need to add an air stone that is properly sized in your tank to compensate. After I quickly added an airstone in combination with the CO2 injection, not only did the plants really thrive and flourish more quickly, the fish loved the additional O2. Sometimes, some of the fish will go to the one side that has the airstone and will stay there taking in the air shower into their gills so the sensation to them must be like a refreshing air shower they enjoy. In addition to the diffuser, I also placed a small power head that fans the CO2 horizontally allowing it to mix in the tank better instead of simply flowing straight up to the surface.

There is no question that with CO2 injection, you may see a level of pH 1 change throughout the day. If your tank tends towards a certain pH such as 7.4, with CO2 injection you should see the pH drop to possibly 6.4 or 6.6. You can adjust this slightly with buffers but just be aware the CO2 injection will lower the pH through the course of use. Make sure you keep a chart that shows the relationship between pH and kH nearby. You want to maintain levels in the CO2 "sweet spots". When starting out, I suggest keeping a spreadsheet and record changes such as Temp, pH and kH, Bubbles/sec readings in conjunction with times light and CO2 are turned ON and turned OFF at different times of day. I turn ON the CO2 injection system at the time the light comes ON each morning and try to turn OFF my CO2 setup about 30 minutes before my light turns OFF each day. In my case, my pH may be in the range of 6.6 - 7.2 in a given day with kH readings around 5 and with my mini Regulator when it is ON I stay around 3-4 Bubbles / sec but each setup requires different levels.

Simply add an airstone to supplement your CO2 injection system.
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First, I was cleaning up an old email account and deleting all of my pc files saw this and was curious. FYI I have raised fish since a child (50's) and am "old school" (and still have the books from Dr. Innes I collected long ago). I have archived many online aquarium links that cover a wide range of topics. I mention my background only for reference ie OLD OLD school, lol. (I post below a portion from my info I sent to others long ago with a link to an amazing site on water chemistry..GREAT SITE.) And another below to a site on huge globes. These results do not often come up in searches much anymore.

Aquarium Chemistry / Calcium & Kh and Gh and Ph and Electrolytes (ions)) (important for the osmotic function of fish). It is a small fraction of the information at this site which then list many topics of interest. Hopefully this link is helpful to others

I later bred and exchanged aquarium fish in NYC for a great Chinatown aquarium outlet (where they were put into a giant long open planted tank and not sold). I actually bred some of the tetra species that you have. They are delicate fish and even a lack of a school can cause them additional stress.

There can be many factors involved, often cumulating in stressed dead fish.

Your fish are sick as others mentioned and perhaps even from the stress of the Ph and other parameters not be stable or even correct. (which lowers their vitality)

Many are bred overseas (unless you got them from a breeder in your city) and are already stressed from the shipping and other factors. (Use to volunteer at a shop in NYC and many doa's)

Unfortunately, I once did not let my water filter for a week (I had huge garbage pails in my bedroom and packed my own filters knowing NYC water was crud) and I did a partial change for a large heavily planted, long-established globe aquarium.

The smaller fish (school of tetras) died off so fast I was stunned and the larger ones suffered so much I put them out of their misery. Turns out there was construction going on including the water lines and heavy metals and gunk got into the water supply!!!) Knowing and doing (or not in this case) meant my poor fish paid for my big mistake (or lazy) Call me silly but I cried long and hard.

I normally only did partials, drain from the bottom, slowly dribble for hours from a higher source with air tubing - no stress no shocks. The plants were fully rooted and no need to disturb the substrate. On occasion, one could see plants with air bubbles.

I always used filters that I packed specific for each tank (hidden behind plants the globes and hang on backs in the 100 sized on down. I added extensions to the intake so the water came from the bottom of the aquarium adding to the circulation). I arranged it so there were splashes and air bubbles in the water or even added air stones as some fish loved to play in the bubbles.

..........................

1 - Question is when you say you have been in this hobby for about 3 months and have a 200 l planted Co2 injected aquarium - (sorry if I am misreading I had a concussion and am seeing double)

1a do you mean this tank was set up for three months with fish plants added all at once, or when. Ie was their time (often months) for the plants and "bugs" microscopic 'bio bugs" to become established and help to balance all things before any fish were slowly added over time (so all things can adjust). (things many all of the various parameters).

Yes the Ph change can indeed cause "shock" to their extremely delicate systems and cause them to die off (as well I suspect many other factors are involved, such as the Ph affect the "solubility and toxicity of chemicals and heavy metals in the water" ). Some can adjust over a long period of time but not in the timeline you are mentioning (for most)

1 - Each species has a range tolerance and often ANY abrupt change (TO THEM) can be a disaster. and tetras like to be in schools (huge schools) as it gives them security. (and is beautiful as well)

2 - Dosing with ferts hmmm. Again this can alter many parameters and unless the environment (esp the so-called bio bugs - key to health in an aquarium) is WELL established can harm them as well and their die-off or waste can create toxins your tools don't measure.

3 - Kh and Gh are also good? Well again, that depends on the specific fish species and often the plant species. And the balance throughout the day and nighttime. Which can alter enough to cause stress, disease and even shock in fish.

.......................................

These links are rarely found with searches anymore but SUPERB literature on PH, Redox systems and other matters.

This is a MUST Read article chapter on this subject of RO water use, including Buffers:
Correct RO, DI Water Use in Aquariums

KH is basically the alkaline buffering capacity of your aquarium (there also is an opposite acid buffering process which when combined with KH is important for planted aquariums or low pH aquariums;


""""Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)""""

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AQUARIUM CHEMISTRY | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)

""""Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)""""

By Carl Strohmeyer-PAMR 35+ years experience
Updated 11/27/18

AQUARIUM CHEMISTRY OVERVIEW;

Many aquarists overlook the need for electrolytes; positive mineral cations such as calcium & magnesium and the effect of KH (Carbonate hardness) in their freshwater aquarium (marine aquarium keepers tend to be more aware of these processes/parameters).

Minerals such calcium are essential for osmotic function in fish and many aquarists make the mistake of believing that some fish such as Discus or Bettas do not require Calcium or minerals when in reality (based on many studies in biochemistry and relating to Redox Balance) these mineral cations are essential and GH test kits to not give the full picture (Important, please see the GH section for more).
Unfortunately, based on many forum posts, client conversations, and emails; this aspect of aquarium keeping is one of the most misunderstood today as is often the case in the "The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle" as well!

Reference: Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

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Links to globes... I found at a plastics outlet and sat on a Chinese stool with a hole in the middle so it would hold the globe. (I eventually found out what they are and where to order - from long ago saved link if any one is interested) Not sure if viable still. """BALLS PLASTIC BALLS FROM COMPLEX PLASTICS 1-888-PLASTIK 1-800-363-2870 SUPPLIERS OF INDUSTRIAL PLASTICS"""
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Wow what an informative post thank you for the time!

To answer your questions, yes I planted the tank and cycled it for over a month till paramaters were good. I use RO water so I add minerals to get KH and GH from 1 to kh5 gh8..

Today is the second day with the airstone on at night (actually right after lights go out) and no casualties.. so far so good unless I jynx it! One thing I realised is that thrle drop checker turns blue with the airstone is this how it should be? Before the airstone it used to remain green so could that be that co2 wasnt dissolving hence why my fish were dying??
 
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