P.S. Fish Store.... Thanks for the Ich :(

1736 Views 12 Replies 5 Participants Last post by travis424, Nov 19, 2016

travis424

Discussion Starter · Nov 18, 2016

So I noticed that one of my plecos wasn't as lively yesterday. He was literally spending the whole day in one spot at the bottom of the aquarium. I woke up this morning and he was still there. This was when I noticed white spots on him. I have had these fish 6 days now and normally when I get a new fish I put them in my 10 gallon/hospital tank for a few days before they go into my tanks. I didn't bother this time because I figured it was a new tank. These poor plecos. First I almost gas them to death and now this. I called the store I bought them from. The guys response there was "Oh that's just a common fish cold." Now I have had fish for a long time and I know that Ich is a bit more serious then that. I'm pretty sure the guy at the fish store detected my skepticism also as the next thing out of his mouth was "Oh we only take returns on fish that have died within 48 hours". They were no help nor were they apologetic at all. Done with them which is a shame because I have had good luck with them in the past. The only time I have ever gotten Ich was when I purchased fish from Petco. Currently the plecos are now in my 10 gallon tank. I have removed the carbon and am treating with Kordon Ich Attack. I have had this medicine for probably 10 years. Is there a shelf life on this stuff? Better treatments? Also I am concerned that the fish spent a night in my large tank when the CO2 was too high in my planted tank. They were probably in there a total of 8 hours. Should I worry about the fish in the large tank? Tetras in the planted tank show no signs of Ich. Should they also be treated? Can I treat the planted tank? I know these are a lot of questions and I apologize it has just been a long time since I have had any issues like this.

10 Gallon Hospital Tank. I know the glass is gross. This tank seldom has a fish in it. The water is clean though.

Poor little guy. Lighting in the 10 gallon isn't that great but you can see the white spots on him. The other one has only a few white spots but was too active to get a picture of.

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longgonedaddy

· #2 · Nov 18, 2016

So, you put two plecos in a new tank, gas them with too much CO2, and you blame the shop for the ich outbreak?

Most of that ich cure is salt, so you should be ok. But it never hurt to get new stuff. Add aeration, slowly increase the heat, and they should be ok.

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travis424

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 18, 2016

longgonedaddy said:
So, you put two plecos in a new tank, gas them with too much CO2, and you blame the shop for the ich outbreak?

Most of that ich cure is salt, so you should be ok. But it never hurt to get new stuff. Add aeration, slowly increase the heat, and they should be ok.

Well honestly I didn't know the CO2 could cause ich if it does then I take the blame. I always figured it had to be introduced into a tank considering its a parasite. Like I said I have been pretty lucky over the years and have only had to deal with ich once before and in that case Petco took the fish back. Since I took the picture I have added an airstone to the tank. Water temperature is at 78. Probably wont go higher then that as all I have for heat in there is a small heater that came with the 10 gallon tank with no adjustments. It's pretty much 78 or nothing. This is also the same temperature of the tank they were taken out of. And yes I did put two plecos in a new tank however I figured the tank was large enough and I have been monitoring it closely for ammonia spikes etc. As of right now the ammonia is at 0ppm and the fish have been acting normal.

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Nordic

· #4 · Nov 18, 2016

longgonedaddy said:
So, you put two plecos in a new tank, gas them with too much CO2, and you blame the shop for the ich outbreak?

Most of that ich cure is salt, so you should be ok. But it never hurt to get new stuff. Add aeration, slowly increase the heat, and they should be ok.

He is right though... Ich wasn't teleported onto the fish when the CO2 went up.
I.e. it came from the store.

10 gallons are lots of work with plecos, a single slice of cucumber will make the water smokey looking. you are forever busy doing water changes and vacuuming.
I can only pull it off in a super densely planted tank... as in wildly overgrown to the point where the plants on the bottom are choked out for light.

Don't let gross glass put you off, the biolayer is much better to have than not. Pleco will take care of it as soon as it feels better.

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philipraposo1982

· #5 · Nov 18, 2016

From my experience in can be treated with heat only or heat and salt.

Other off the shelf meds I don't have any experience with so I won't comment.

I only use salt if the heat only treatments fail to work. But it's rarely been the case. I only had to deal with fish with such twice and both times they had it before I obtained them. Adopted fish.

Anyhow, I suggest slowly bring up the tank temp. I like to hit 87 and hold it there for 14 days. Keep lots of surface agitation and feed light meals of quality food. Change water often and I think you will be fine.

Light substrate vacuuming is important too to ensure the eggs removed as much as possible. If your not family with the life cycle of the parasite I would highly suggest doing a bit of reading to better understand what the fish have and how to deal with it.

The idea with the heat is to speed up the life cycle of the parasite and then create an environment so warm that it can't survive or eggs can't live to further the cycle. You may see the spots all go away then come back. This is because the new batch of eggs hatched and is starting again. Thats why it's important to continue the heat treatment well past the point of being able to see them on the fish. Ensuring to kill off everything.

The good news is that with quick action the parasite is unlikely to kill the fish or do long term damage. If left alone things will get bad fast.

Aim for a rise of 2 degrees an hour. I have done this with good success and my fish seemed fine both times though the treatment. If you observe the fish getting worse with the intense heat it's best to back off and give it a bit more time. Do a small water change to bring temp down a couple degrees.

Hope this is helpful. Good luck.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

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travis424

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 18, 2016

Searching through my old supplies I managed to find an extra 100w heater and have put it in the tank. I will bring the temp up a couple degrees per hour until it reaches the upper 80's. I will continue using the medication as upon further reading it appears to review quite well and people seem satisfied with using it. The one pleco seems to be doing fine. A few spots on him but he doesn't seem to be affected. He's all over the 10 gallon munching off the glass. The other is still non active but I'm hopeful. I plan on doing daily water changes as well. Upon testing the water in the tank it has a ph of 7.5 but no ammonia nitrates or nitrites. Even though I assumed it was an established tank (Been going for 3 years) it appears there is no biological filtration going on so I will have to monitor water conditions closely. I'm actually a little annoyed by this because at one point this tank had cycled. I'm assuming lack of fish in the tank caused the bacteria to die off.

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longgonedaddy

· #7 · Nov 19, 2016

Nordic said:
He is right though... Ich wasn't teleported onto the fish when the CO2 went up.
I.e. it came from the store.

Agreed, but stressing the fish, notably gassing them and putting them in an uncycled tank, likely caused the outbreak. Pathogens are all around, but generally only affect stressed or weakened fish. Healthy fish normally don't succumb to disease.

Travis, good to hear you have the extra heater. Between that and the meds, you should be fine. Sounds like your one pleco is in good shape, hopefully the other one will follow soon.

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travis424

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 19, 2016

longgonedaddy said:
Agreed, but stressing the fish, notably gassing them and putting them in an uncycled tank, likely caused the outbreak. Pathogens are all around, but generally only affect stressed or weakened fish. Healthy fish normally don't succumb to disease.

Travis, good to hear you have the extra heater. Between that and the meds, you should be fine. Sounds like your one pleco is in good shape, hopefully the other one will follow soon.

Thanks. I'm hoping he will perk back up. Water temp was slowly brought up to 87 degrees. Treating twice daily with Ich Attack. Hoping within a week they will be cleared up and able to go back into the larger tank but I may keep them in the 10 gallon longer if needed. I just don't like keeping fish in that small of a tank for extended periods of time. Way to easy to have issues arise in a small tank. Especially since its apparently no longer cycled. I work from home so I will be able to keep an eye on them throughout the day.

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Nordic

· #9 · Nov 19, 2016

longgonedaddy said:
Pathogens are all around, but generally only affect stressed or weakened fish.

I think what you may have been trung to convey is that unstressed fish don't normally get sick.

However, there is no way to stress a fish into getting ich.

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longgonedaddy

· #10 · Nov 19, 2016

Nordic said:
I think what you may have been trung to convey is that unstressed fish don't normally get sick.

However, there is no way to stress a fish into getting ich.

Yes, that's what I was getting to. Animals of all sorts are exposed to pathogens every day, and the ones with compromised immune systems are the ones to be more likely to contract a disease. Stress is one of the easiest ways to immune systems to underperform.

So, by extension, if being stressed does not make the fish more susceptible to itch, then any fish exposed to it are doomed to contract it?

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FuzzyCrawdad

· #11 · Nov 19, 2016

I would recommend against the heat and salt treatment. Very very much. Very VERY few fish actually benefit from a salt treatment, and most catfish can't tolerate it at all. You'll be doing way more harm than good so put any salt away and leave it for the mollies.

As for heat, that's also going to add a ton of stress because hot water can't keep as much oxygen in it, so either crank up the filter and air pump or keep the temp down.

I do fully support and recommend Seachem Paraguard to fight the ich. It's brutal on parasites (and fungal issues so there's a bonus) but super gentle on the fish and doesn't require water changes after each dose.

I'll also say this. Fish coming from the store are almost guaranteed to get sick. Moves stress them. You put them into even an established tank and then proceed to not treat the water, something is going to break out among the newbies. Fish stores don't have the livestock long enough to make sure they're healthy before you buy them. So the store isn't really 100% to blame.

I hope the little guys pull through on you.

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Nordic

· #12 · Nov 19, 2016 (Edited)

longgonedaddy said:
So, by extension, if being stressed does not make the fish more susceptible to itch, then any fish exposed to it are doomed to contract it?

Fish with a good slime coat are less susceptible to catching ich if it is going around, simply because the organism can not contact the skin and set up house. (part of why salt is used) So in that sense, they may be more resistant.

The thing is, you need just 1 of the ich critters to find a weak spot and complete its lifecycle, to end with a couple thousand more trying wave two. That being said, ich can not live without a host. If you had a tank of water and dump an ich infected load of water into it, and leave it for longer than the period required to go through its cycle at the temperature you are using. It will be ich free. unless you put new ich back in, there is no way a fish can catch ich from that tank. The organism doesn't live there.

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travis424

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 19, 2016 (Edited)

Well unfortunately the sick pleco didn't survive. I noticed last night he had moved himself from one area of the tank to the other which I thought might be promising. Woke up this morning to check on them and found him dead. Not sure if it was the ich that killed him or if there was another underlying cause. The other one still seems ok. I have done a little more reading on treating plecos with ich. It seems the medication I am using is the most recommended treatment for plecos as salt and other harsher methods can damage their skin. It was also recommended not to go above 80 degrees on the temp as they are also sensitive to heat. So I'm continuing to treat with Kordon Ich Attack and slowly lowering the temperature to 80. I'll do daily water changes and just wait and see. I did notice that the 100w heater I put in the tank did not keep the 87 degrees I brought it up to (Probably the reason I stopped using it to begin with). It was down to 84 this morning when I woke so after I bring the temp down the plan is to put the small heater back in the tank.

Sole Survivor

Overall looking pretty good. Its hard to tell in that tank as the lighting isn't very good and the medication tints the water (As well as smells horrid) but it looks like the spots might be gone. He only had a few on him to begin with. He's also a little shy so its hard to get a good look at him.
*EDIT* Was able to get a better look at him using a flashlight and spots are still there. Other then that he's exhibiting normal pleco behavior. I'm sure he will make a full recovery.

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