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Yes,you can.![]()
Can you overstock a tank?
~ Glen Community Support
Overstocking a Tank
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That pic must be from one of the major aquarium companies. They always show pics of way overstocked tanks which of course is misleading to newbies entering the hobby.
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Bump:
Thanks!! I got the Daemons from Jeff Rapps, he has an amazing fish stock of south American cichlids. my PH sits at 6.0 and have been using some Fluval plant stratum and some Tantora Catappa Bark to release some natural tannins to keep my PH stable. I 100% agree with you though, Satanoperca are by far my favorite eartheater species and I hope to keep some others in the future.
Thanks!! I got the Daemons from Jeff Rapps, he has an amazing fish stock of south American cichlids. my PH sits at 6.0 and have been using some Fluval plant stratum and some Tantora Catappa Bark to release some natural tannins to keep my PH stable. I 100% agree with you though, Satanoperca are by far my favorite eartheater species and I hope to keep some others in the future.
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I would challenge this and say that maybe what you are observing is "cool" behavior... but might not necessarily be "natural" behavior. Your fish might be healthy and happy... no doubt... but there arent too many streams out there that have fish bumping into each other's noses (overstocked) without a concern in the world of a predator.
Whatever behavior you alluded to when adding plants... you can obveously say that is more "natural"... because well... plants are natural haha :nerd:
I would also like to challenge how many fry end up surviving in the "over crowded" tank? Because "Over crowded" and "natural" are two different things. Mother Nature does a good job at making sure that is the case.
If nature is too overcrowded and fry cannot survive... it slowly gets... uhmm.... less crowded :grin2: until there is a natural balance again.
Really need an answer to this. As basic as it seems I've never actually been able to work this out and wether or not the variables change depending on how heavily planted your tank is.
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Back to some of the above points for clarification.
... Overstocked in what sense? That everything survives?
In the sense of planted tank. Most if not all of the tank will be planted and I have adequate filtration but I notice that a lot of planted tanks have very few fish and I've never really understood why.
Would 25 green neons or 25 diamonds be overstocked in a heavily planted 40g single species tank.
Or is there some rule that I haven't stumbled across when it comes to a planted tank stocking, that allows you to work out how much of a particular species I can stock in planted setups.
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Already been touched on above.Size of fish,agression,size of tank,etc
The more fish one has,the more they tend to feed,= more waste in the tank from poop.
Plant's will take up most of the waste (nitrates) as well as ammonia but one can still have more organic input than they maybe want or can remove between weekly water changes.
If you are one who want's to keep nitrates at say 20 ppm, and by week's end you have 80 ppm ,then you are prolly over feeding,over stocked,under filtered ,or all of the above.
Personally think 25 Diamond tetra's to be bout right for 40 gal tank.(no more )
The more fish one has,the more they tend to feed,= more waste in the tank from poop.
Plant's will take up most of the waste (nitrates) as well as ammonia but one can still have more organic input than they maybe want or can remove between weekly water changes.
If you are one who want's to keep nitrates at say 20 ppm, and by week's end you have 80 ppm ,then you are prolly over feeding,over stocked,under filtered ,or all of the above.
Personally think 25 Diamond tetra's to be bout right for 40 gal tank.(no more )
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Practically... planted tanks could be stocked more heavily than a non-planted tank due to the plants absorbing and using the fish waste, ammonia, etc...
The only thing comes to mind when you say you see many planted tanks "less stocked" is that
1) Aesthetic appeal desired by the aquascaper (make it look pretty 0
) or
2) the fish are hiding and making more use of the plants?
... but I imagine a lot of it is #1. Many planted enthusiasts start to take more pride in the garden aspect and drift a little further away from the fauna that got many of us in the hobby to begin with. Not everyone of course!... but I have noticed that in myself :nerd:
I just did an extensive overstocking experiment... for a while all I had was a 5 gallon nano tank with a betta, and I was tempted to add other things, for starters MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails), and then 5 amano shrimp, and finally 6 pygmy cories. I was faithful about weekly 33% water changes, but my nitrates and phosphates trended high all the time, so you're producing stress. Since then I've gone to three tanks a 5 gallon, which is a refugium to breed inverts, and a 10 gallon which has cherry shrimp, and the 29G which has 8 cories (7x Aeneus, and 1x Pygmy), 1 betta, 5 amano shrimp, and MTS.
With ample plants, my nitrates and phosphates are down to 0 all the time and I am now interested in finding out, as I add more fish, when I start seeing nitrates run up. I think it's mainly duck weed and hornwort which take out massive amounts of nutrients, although all plants help of course.
With ample plants, my nitrates and phosphates are down to 0 all the time and I am now interested in finding out, as I add more fish, when I start seeing nitrates run up. I think it's mainly duck weed and hornwort which take out massive amounts of nutrients, although all plants help of course.
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Improve the quality of your questions.
Can you overstock a tank = can you poor more wine into a full barrell
Silly stuff for primary school kids
Give us something that actually triggers an in depth conversation
Like:
Should businesses sponsor high-level aquascaping competitions?
Poll: Which algae is the worst? List BGA, GSA, BBA etc and have people vote. Generate discussion about algae management etc
If you were given $10,000US to build your dream aquarium, what would you spend your money on?
etc etc etc
Can you overstock a tank = can you poor more wine into a full barrell
Silly stuff for primary school kids
Give us something that actually triggers an in depth conversation
Like:
Should businesses sponsor high-level aquascaping competitions?
Poll: Which algae is the worst? List BGA, GSA, BBA etc and have people vote. Generate discussion about algae management etc
If you were given $10,000US to build your dream aquarium, what would you spend your money on?
etc etc etc
![]()
Can you overstock a tank?
~ Glen Community Support
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752 Posts
Success rates vary and it depends on which fish and what type of environment. I've read a lot of good posts in here and agree with many of them.
Personally I have one massively overstocked tank, my guppy tank. It's a 40 Breeder w/ cory cats (6 for sure, but there may be 12, I can never get an accurate count), 1 Blue Gourami, and about 70 or 80 guppies varying in size.
I managed this tank w/ heavy planting and weekly 50% water changes. Nitrates rarely get over 20/30 prior to a water change and the fish are fed twice daily.
But I wouldn't try this with all the fish out there nor would I try it without being heavily planted.
We have a person locally who has a massively overstocked live bearer tank without live plants. He does 90% daily water changes on that tank to manage it.
Personally I have one massively overstocked tank, my guppy tank. It's a 40 Breeder w/ cory cats (6 for sure, but there may be 12, I can never get an accurate count), 1 Blue Gourami, and about 70 or 80 guppies varying in size.
I managed this tank w/ heavy planting and weekly 50% water changes. Nitrates rarely get over 20/30 prior to a water change and the fish are fed twice daily.
But I wouldn't try this with all the fish out there nor would I try it without being heavily planted.
We have a person locally who has a massively overstocked live bearer tank without live plants. He does 90% daily water changes on that tank to manage it.
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Many good opinions and viewpoints have been presented above; however, there are only three basic and fundamental needs to be considered for any animal kept in captivity, so, in essence, the term "overstocking" can only be used technically in reference to:
(1) BIOLOGICAL NEEDS which, in the case of fish/aquatic invertebrates, deals purely with the biological load and balance of the aquarium system (which determines water quality), and can be dealt with to varying degrees of success by
(A)removing waste product buildup from the system entirely, as in more thorough filtration (protien skimmers, etc.) or a more intensive maintenance schedule, including larger, more frequent water changes and frequent cleaning of the filter(s),
(B) providing a larger base for waste processing organisms and/or machinery, such as using a larger filter, multiple filters, or by providing a heavier plant density to utilize (or "soak up") substances which are toxic and/or stressful to fish/fauna (Utilizing plants for this purpose also requires considering the plants' processing abilities which, in addition to the fish waste products we want them to deal with, are also dependent upon light level and duration, as well as CO2 availability during the photo-period, which extremes of either could be stressful to fish/fauna, thus defeating the purpose of using plants solely to deal with fauna waste products. Also, the aquarium may become "overstocked" with plants, themselves, if they compete with livestock for available oxygen at night, when plants also take up oxygen and release CO2--added surface agitation at night helps prevent this.),
(C) increasing the overall size of the system by using a hidden sump, so that while the display tank may be only 55 gallons, another 55 gallon tank hidden underneath (or a big, cheap plastic tub) will double the actual size of the system, thus doubling the number of potential inhabitants as well as the margin of safety before toxins reach stressful levels, whether this hidden sump contains filtration components or not (large public aquariums in coastal areas have historically used seawater pumped straight from the ocean, through their display tanks, then back out to sea, thus providing the potential for virtually unlimited stocking abilities as far as water quality is concerned, since they thus become, in actuality, a part of the entire oceanic ecosystem. Of course, with the increasing pollution of near-shore waters, I suspect this unfiltered approach will soon be a thing of the past.),
(D) increasing water surface turbulence, which results in a higher gas exchange between the water and air, meaning more oxygen is entering the water (benefiting fauna directly and increasing the potential activity of nitrifying bacteria), as well as more carbon dioxide leaving the water (which, adversely, reduces the benefits of using plants to handle bio-load), and also, to a lesser extent, the removal of Nitrogen from the system entirely.
These aspects only address the biological, physical well-being of the inhabitants, and are generally the only considerations given to fish/fauna that are intended for production purposes, such as live-animal marketing or as food sources, and in such cases are often held in tight balance--for cost/benefit purposes--just enough to prevent stress-related casualties or stunting. BUT, our fish are supposed to be our "pets", so a much larger margin of comfort (and safety) is presumed to be desired.
(2) BEHAVIORAL NEEDS of the inhabitants, such as:
(A) the physical properties of the habitat, as in: the similarity to the fauna's natural habitat that it has evolved to take advantage of and feel the least stressful in (or a similar approximation that fulfills the animals' preferences, such as a clear plastic or glass tube satisfying the inclinations of a black ghost fish to "hide", and thus making it more comfortable while still being visible),
(B) a large enough aquarium to allow territorial fish their own area, or else defined, visually separated areas in a smaller tank that serve the same purpose, assuming, of course, that the tank is large enough to accommodate the size of the fish, itself (This also includes the concept of using different species' natural inclination toward using different strata, or different micro-habitats within the aquarium, such as the African Butterfly Fish, Pantodon buchholzi, and the Kuhli-loach, Acanthophthalmus kuhlii, which, even though they may occupy the same 20 gallon aquarium, each may never know the other exists, because one incessantly hangs around at the water's surface, while the other is always either hiding underneath something or wriggling its way around the very bottom of the tank; I can't, under any stretch of the imagination, see them ever "crowding" one another.)
(C) a high female-to-male ratio for some species, so that one female isn't "worried to death" by the over-attentive male,
(D) appropriate spawning sites for those fish that are inclined to spawn (slate "walls", flowerpot "caves" sandy substrates, grass-like, large-leafed or floating plants, etc.), or
(E) simply enough cover (plants, rocks, caves, etc.) all around the aquarium so that shy, timid species feel comfortable enough to come out and show themselves (in good color) because they know there is always a hiding place nearby that they can dart into if the urge arises..
Often, especially in commercial enterprises, just the bare minimum is provided to cover the specific needs of a fish at specific times, such as bare-bottom tanks to make it easier to provide better water quality for discus, since their need for high water quality is stronger than their need for visual or structural "niceties", or for breeding tanks being bare, save for the bottoms covered with marbles for breeding egg-scattering species, or simply suspended "mops" for koi to lay their eggs in, or floating plants for live-bearer fry to hide in. Most quarantine or "hospital" tanks are relatively bare for sanitation's sake, with possibly just a few objects or hiding spots to reduce the fish's stress level. Such plain, basic setups are specific to their purpose and serve the faunas' over-riding needs at the time and are, in most hobbyists' eyes, only temporary and unsuitable for the long-term housing of animals which we portend to care about as pets.
(3) NUTRITIONAL NEEDS, the third main aspect of all pet-care, is only applicable to the concept of "overstocking" in the sense that in large groups of mixed species (or sometimes with just a few individuals of the same aggressive species), some animals may be "bullied" or just out-competed for available food when the "feeding frenzy" occurs, so in such a case, the aquarium could be said to be overstocked, even though this is more a case of "wrongly stocked", or mismatched tank mates, or it could even be as simple as not providing the proper variety of foods, such as both floating and sinking, to match each species' needs..
(4) The last criteria that could be considered as a qualifier for a tank being "overstocked" has nothing to do with the tank's occupants, but deals solely with the ideas of man, and is simply the aesthetic factor, and, as long as the factors above have been properly addressed, this is purely subjective and a matter of preference for the individual's tastes. What some see as a wonderfully vibrant display of an uncountable school of guppies, others may see as a dreadful overpopulation explosion in a very limited space. (Personally, I can't say that I have ever seen a guppy that seemed in any way distressed by an extremely large crowd of its peers, unless it was a lone female in a tank full of persistent males, but this trait certainly doesn't extend to all species of fishes.)
Overall, almost any perception of a tank being regarded as "overstocked" can be argued against with regard to its purpose, and most situations where some would consider a tank to be "overstocked" are mitigated by the effort put forth to maintain a margin of environmental safety within the system and the mechanical methods employed to ensure that margin, how large of a safety margin the aquarist desires and thinks is appropriate, the inclinations and behaviors of the species within that system, and the personal opinion of what the aquarium owner thinks is visually appealing. From an ethical point of view, a tank is not "overstocked" unless the inhabitants of the tank are under stress of some type, be it environmental (water quality), behavioral (poorly chosen tank furnishings, ill-advised tank mates, not enough territory, a bad male/female ratio, etc.), or nutritional (not enough food provided to each occupant). Anything beyond those criteria is purely an opinion, and opinions are like as--...er...um....belly-buttons...yeah, that's it, "Opinions are like bellybuttons: everybody's got one." :wink2: That's mine.
Olskule
(1) BIOLOGICAL NEEDS which, in the case of fish/aquatic invertebrates, deals purely with the biological load and balance of the aquarium system (which determines water quality), and can be dealt with to varying degrees of success by
(A)removing waste product buildup from the system entirely, as in more thorough filtration (protien skimmers, etc.) or a more intensive maintenance schedule, including larger, more frequent water changes and frequent cleaning of the filter(s),
(B) providing a larger base for waste processing organisms and/or machinery, such as using a larger filter, multiple filters, or by providing a heavier plant density to utilize (or "soak up") substances which are toxic and/or stressful to fish/fauna (Utilizing plants for this purpose also requires considering the plants' processing abilities which, in addition to the fish waste products we want them to deal with, are also dependent upon light level and duration, as well as CO2 availability during the photo-period, which extremes of either could be stressful to fish/fauna, thus defeating the purpose of using plants solely to deal with fauna waste products. Also, the aquarium may become "overstocked" with plants, themselves, if they compete with livestock for available oxygen at night, when plants also take up oxygen and release CO2--added surface agitation at night helps prevent this.),
(C) increasing the overall size of the system by using a hidden sump, so that while the display tank may be only 55 gallons, another 55 gallon tank hidden underneath (or a big, cheap plastic tub) will double the actual size of the system, thus doubling the number of potential inhabitants as well as the margin of safety before toxins reach stressful levels, whether this hidden sump contains filtration components or not (large public aquariums in coastal areas have historically used seawater pumped straight from the ocean, through their display tanks, then back out to sea, thus providing the potential for virtually unlimited stocking abilities as far as water quality is concerned, since they thus become, in actuality, a part of the entire oceanic ecosystem. Of course, with the increasing pollution of near-shore waters, I suspect this unfiltered approach will soon be a thing of the past.),
(D) increasing water surface turbulence, which results in a higher gas exchange between the water and air, meaning more oxygen is entering the water (benefiting fauna directly and increasing the potential activity of nitrifying bacteria), as well as more carbon dioxide leaving the water (which, adversely, reduces the benefits of using plants to handle bio-load), and also, to a lesser extent, the removal of Nitrogen from the system entirely.
These aspects only address the biological, physical well-being of the inhabitants, and are generally the only considerations given to fish/fauna that are intended for production purposes, such as live-animal marketing or as food sources, and in such cases are often held in tight balance--for cost/benefit purposes--just enough to prevent stress-related casualties or stunting. BUT, our fish are supposed to be our "pets", so a much larger margin of comfort (and safety) is presumed to be desired.
(2) BEHAVIORAL NEEDS of the inhabitants, such as:
(A) the physical properties of the habitat, as in: the similarity to the fauna's natural habitat that it has evolved to take advantage of and feel the least stressful in (or a similar approximation that fulfills the animals' preferences, such as a clear plastic or glass tube satisfying the inclinations of a black ghost fish to "hide", and thus making it more comfortable while still being visible),
(B) a large enough aquarium to allow territorial fish their own area, or else defined, visually separated areas in a smaller tank that serve the same purpose, assuming, of course, that the tank is large enough to accommodate the size of the fish, itself (This also includes the concept of using different species' natural inclination toward using different strata, or different micro-habitats within the aquarium, such as the African Butterfly Fish, Pantodon buchholzi, and the Kuhli-loach, Acanthophthalmus kuhlii, which, even though they may occupy the same 20 gallon aquarium, each may never know the other exists, because one incessantly hangs around at the water's surface, while the other is always either hiding underneath something or wriggling its way around the very bottom of the tank; I can't, under any stretch of the imagination, see them ever "crowding" one another.)
(C) a high female-to-male ratio for some species, so that one female isn't "worried to death" by the over-attentive male,
(D) appropriate spawning sites for those fish that are inclined to spawn (slate "walls", flowerpot "caves" sandy substrates, grass-like, large-leafed or floating plants, etc.), or
(E) simply enough cover (plants, rocks, caves, etc.) all around the aquarium so that shy, timid species feel comfortable enough to come out and show themselves (in good color) because they know there is always a hiding place nearby that they can dart into if the urge arises..
Often, especially in commercial enterprises, just the bare minimum is provided to cover the specific needs of a fish at specific times, such as bare-bottom tanks to make it easier to provide better water quality for discus, since their need for high water quality is stronger than their need for visual or structural "niceties", or for breeding tanks being bare, save for the bottoms covered with marbles for breeding egg-scattering species, or simply suspended "mops" for koi to lay their eggs in, or floating plants for live-bearer fry to hide in. Most quarantine or "hospital" tanks are relatively bare for sanitation's sake, with possibly just a few objects or hiding spots to reduce the fish's stress level. Such plain, basic setups are specific to their purpose and serve the faunas' over-riding needs at the time and are, in most hobbyists' eyes, only temporary and unsuitable for the long-term housing of animals which we portend to care about as pets.
(3) NUTRITIONAL NEEDS, the third main aspect of all pet-care, is only applicable to the concept of "overstocking" in the sense that in large groups of mixed species (or sometimes with just a few individuals of the same aggressive species), some animals may be "bullied" or just out-competed for available food when the "feeding frenzy" occurs, so in such a case, the aquarium could be said to be overstocked, even though this is more a case of "wrongly stocked", or mismatched tank mates, or it could even be as simple as not providing the proper variety of foods, such as both floating and sinking, to match each species' needs..
(4) The last criteria that could be considered as a qualifier for a tank being "overstocked" has nothing to do with the tank's occupants, but deals solely with the ideas of man, and is simply the aesthetic factor, and, as long as the factors above have been properly addressed, this is purely subjective and a matter of preference for the individual's tastes. What some see as a wonderfully vibrant display of an uncountable school of guppies, others may see as a dreadful overpopulation explosion in a very limited space. (Personally, I can't say that I have ever seen a guppy that seemed in any way distressed by an extremely large crowd of its peers, unless it was a lone female in a tank full of persistent males, but this trait certainly doesn't extend to all species of fishes.)
Overall, almost any perception of a tank being regarded as "overstocked" can be argued against with regard to its purpose, and most situations where some would consider a tank to be "overstocked" are mitigated by the effort put forth to maintain a margin of environmental safety within the system and the mechanical methods employed to ensure that margin, how large of a safety margin the aquarist desires and thinks is appropriate, the inclinations and behaviors of the species within that system, and the personal opinion of what the aquarium owner thinks is visually appealing. From an ethical point of view, a tank is not "overstocked" unless the inhabitants of the tank are under stress of some type, be it environmental (water quality), behavioral (poorly chosen tank furnishings, ill-advised tank mates, not enough territory, a bad male/female ratio, etc.), or nutritional (not enough food provided to each occupant). Anything beyond those criteria is purely an opinion, and opinions are like as--...er...um....belly-buttons...yeah, that's it, "Opinions are like bellybuttons: everybody's got one." :wink2: That's mine.
Olskule
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138 Posts
One thing I rarely see mentioned is just how bad all the estimates and calculators out there are for really deciding if you're understocked, overstocked, or perfectly stocked. I mean, I get it. It helps to have something to go on, but they are about as pertinent and useful as the old Wattage/Gallon calculators, in the age of LEDs.
For instance, most of those calculators use an inches of fish per litre of water formula. But, is 1 inch of cardinal tetra really the same as 1 inch of pleco or cory or ram? No. Not even close. They eat a fraction of the amount, and clearly, poop a fraction of the amount. They also need less space to feel comfortable.
Anyway, some people might say 100 cardinals in a 55G is way overstocked, and indeed, the first 3 calculators I googled said I was dangerously overstocked. But, 100 cardinals will do just fine in a 55G. Without any super difficult water change requirements.
Anyway, in the end, if the fish are happy and healthy, you aren't overstocked.
For instance, most of those calculators use an inches of fish per litre of water formula. But, is 1 inch of cardinal tetra really the same as 1 inch of pleco or cory or ram? No. Not even close. They eat a fraction of the amount, and clearly, poop a fraction of the amount. They also need less space to feel comfortable.
Anyway, some people might say 100 cardinals in a 55G is way overstocked, and indeed, the first 3 calculators I googled said I was dangerously overstocked. But, 100 cardinals will do just fine in a 55G. Without any super difficult water change requirements.
Anyway, in the end, if the fish are happy and healthy, you aren't overstocked.
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