Overstocked?

1032 Views 8 Replies 5 Participants Last post by MPschenck, Apr 25, 2014

MPschenck

Discussion Starter · Apr 24, 2014

Hello,

Tank & "stuff": 20L, 20 lbs Eco Complete, Azoo sponge filter rated for 30 gallons, Marineland bio-wheel 100 rated for 20 gallons (w/ sponge over the intake) , with 2 30" Finnex Planted + lights over a very tight glass lid.

Plants: 4 amazon swords various sizes from fairly large to pretty small, 6 Crypts from fairly large to fairly small, a few sprigs of dwarf sag left over from another tank, a 2"x4" ss mesh of 2-4 inch long peacock moss, a dinner plate sized area of floating water sprite, and 1 small (4 leaf) java fern.

Decorations: 1 1.5' long new piece of what I believe is malaysian driftwood and a smaller previously used piece of driftwood.

Water: 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates, kH 8, GH 8, pH 7.5 (slowing working this down)
I wanted blackwater so with the new driftwood, 3 IALs and a half cup of peat in a stocking toe + dosing Kent Blackwater Extract I have very blackwater. I'm also dosing Excel and Flourish.

Currently Stocked: 10 Neon Tetra, 5 Cory Habrosus, 3 Oto vestitus

I want to add 2 Apisto Agassizii (a pair), 8 Marble Hatchets, and 1 rare-ish smaller max sized pleco (5"-6")

I know this excedes the 1" of fish per gallon rule that's kinda out dated but the tank is over filtered, nicely planted and I'm doing weekly 20% water changes.

So would this be overstocked, packet to the maximum allowable limit, or would I have room to grow?

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DefStatic

· #2 · Apr 24, 2014

MPschenck said:
Hello,

Tank & "stuff": 20L, 20 lbs Eco Complete, Azoo sponge filter rated for 30 gallons, Marineland bio-wheel 100 rated for 20 gallons (w/ sponge over the intake) , with 2 30" Finnex Planted + lights over a very tight glass lid.

Plants: 4 amazon swords various sizes from fairly large to pretty small, 6 Crypts from fairly large to fairly small, a few sprigs of dwarf sag left over from another tank, a 2"x4" ss mesh of 2-4 inch long peacock moss, a dinner plate sized area of floating water sprite, and 1 small (4 leaf) java fern.

Decorations: 1 1.5' long new piece of what I believe is malaysian driftwood and a smaller previously used piece of driftwood.

Water: 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates, kH 8, GH 8, pH 7.5 (slowing working this down)
I wanted blackwater so with the new driftwood, 3 IALs and a half cup of peat in a stocking toe + dosing Kent Blackwater Extract I have very blackwater. I'm also dosing Excel and Flourish.

Currently Stocked: 10 Neon Tetra, 5 Cory Habrosus, 3 Oto vestitus

I want to add 2 Apisto Agassizii (a pair), 8 Marble Hatchets, and 1 rare-ish smaller max sized pleco (5"-6")

I know this excedes the 1" of fish per gallon rule that's kinda out dated but the tank is over filtered, nicely planted and I'm doing weekly 20% water changes.

So would this be overstocked, packet to the maximum allowable limit, or would I have room to grow?

Actually, I do not find that system to be outdated at all.

http://www.aqadvisor.com/

Yes, we have come a long way since that rule was made. And it isn't perfect. Some fish produce a higher bioload than others. Calculate that with there is not actually 20 gallons of water in there after everything else.

I think you are stocked right at the point of being full per recommendations.

I honestly would suggest starting another tank.

I was at the same point you are, and I wanted to add more fish to my 30 gallon. So I started a 10 gallon and moved some of my fish to it.

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DefStatic

· #3 · Apr 24, 2014

Also, that lighting seems overkill. You could get another 20 long and put one of the lights on it.

Anyone else want to chime in?

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Raymond S.

· #4 · Apr 24, 2014

I would co-sign the overkill. The Blackwater helps this a bit as will low light hrs but it could be used for a second tank while just giving each more hrs if needed/no algae
happens if you did. With one of those on a 20L I think 7 hrs would be good.
My exp is with T5 and T8 so I am estimating from reading PAR charts though.

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garfieldnfish

· #5 · Apr 24, 2014

I think you would be ok with adding either a small pleco or the apistos but I would leave it at that.
Neither the neons not the habrosus corys add a lot of bioload. Your otos probably produce the most waste. One pleco, even a small one, will probably cause more waste than all of your present fish together. You could go with a clown pleco, rubberlip, or a L129 to give you some options, all of those stay at right around 4" and under.

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MPschenck

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 25, 2014

DefStatic said:
Actually, I do not find that system to be outdated at all.

Yes, we have come a long way since that rule was made. And it isn't perfect. Some fish produce a higher bioload than others. Calculate that with there is not actually 20 gallons of water in there after everything else.

I think I was trying to say it’s overly generic. 6” of Neons isn’t equal to 6” of pleco for example.
It’s also effected by the amount/size of plants in the aquarium, or at least I thought.
Thanks for the link. I’d seen that posted around here before but couldn’t find it today.

I think I put about 17.5 gallons in the tank.

DefStatic said:
I honestly would suggest starting another tank.

I was at the same point you are, and I wanted to add more fish to my 30 gallon. So I started a 10 gallon and moved some of my fish to it.

I've got another 20L ready to go. See below. :smile:

DefStatic said:
Also, that lighting seems overkill. You could get another 20 long and put one of the lights on it.

It is. I was trying to punch through the blackwater but it didn’t make THAT much difference.

Raymond S. said:
I would co-sign the overkill. The Blackwater helps this a bit as will low light hrs but it could be used for a second tank while just giving each more hrs if needed/no algae
happens if you did. With one of those on a 20L I think 7 hrs would be good.
My exp is with T5 and T8 so I am estimating from reading PAR charts though.

I’ve got the timers set so one comes on at 4p the second one comes on at 5:30p the first one goes off at 10:30p and the second one goes off at 12a. It’s what time we are home and awake.

garfieldnfish said:
I think you would be ok with adding either a small pleco or the apistos but I would leave it at that.
Neither the neons not the habrosus corys add a lot of bioload. Your otos probably produce the most waste. One pleco, even a small one, will probably cause more waste than all of your present fish together. You could go with a clown pleco, rubberlip, or a L129 to give you some options, all of those stay at right around 4" and under.

There’s a few L-plecos that look stunning and max out around that size. I’m just gonna keep an eye out until I find a nice affordable one. I found an L052 somewhere for $40. They max out a little less than 5” and they have striking dark and light lines.

Ok, I have another 20L underneath the one outlined above. The tanks are on one of those older style over/under stands. The lower tank just has 3 of the peacock moss mesh rectangles in it and a single piece of driftwood. It’s filtered with the same type of sponge filter as the other one and it's cycled. It was what the other Planted+ light was for but I didn’t have enough plants to warrant using the extra light on it.

I suppose I’ll throw some cheap plants in there and thin the fish in the other one out. I also have a very cool LFS guy who trades things out with customers regularly, does consignment on equipment etc. So I’m not “stuck" with anything.

I wanted a lot of movement in the top tank. Cories on the bottom, neons in the lower mid region, hatchets up top, and have the apistos as sort of a center piece. Also, I just have a thing for cool looking plecos.

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MPschenck

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 25, 2014

I've been playing around on AqAdvisor.com and settled on this combo (long form) http://bit.ly/1pvMjbl or

(short form)

I can easily make that work by doing two 4 gallon water changes a week. AqAdvisor recommened "45% per week" which worked out to 7.87 gallons a week. I believe smaller more frequent water changes are better than bigger ones, unless there is a reason for a big one.

I'm going to take the extra Planted+ light off and put it back on the other 20L and build that up to be MOSTLY just a pleco tank.

Thanks for the link and the input everybody!

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Diana

· #8 · Apr 25, 2014

Doing 2 water changes instead of 1 larger one does not add up the same way.

If you need to do a 10 gallon water change you cannot do 2 x 5 gallon.

You might get by with 2 x 7 gallon.

The second water change only counts about half because the concentration of waste material is already cut by the first water change.

If the new Loricariad is one of the wood eating species, or a carnivorous type, then OK. Otherwise I would not add competition to the Otos. Set up a different tank for the other algae eating Loroicariad.

I do not find a 20 long has a top/middle/ bottom. Not tall enough.
Plenty of floor space, so the dwarf Cories will enjoy it. They are just right for that size tank.
But the mid-level and upper level fish will pretty much be in the same area.

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MPschenck

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 25, 2014

Diana said:
Doing 2 water changes instead of 1 larger one does not add up the same way.

The second water change only counts about half because the concentration of waste material is already cut by the first water change.

Ok, I can get right with that.

Diana said:
You might get by with 2 x 7 gallon.

If the recommendation is a 45% wc (7.87 gallons) once a week why might I only "get by with 2 x 7 gallon" wc? I'd just do one 8 gallon wc and be done with it.

I still think smaller more frequent water changes keep the water more stable, especially when I'm having to knock the pH down in my replacement water from about 7.5 to 6.8. However, 1 x 8 gallon wc is less work than 2 X 7s.

Diana said:
If the new Loricariad is one of the wood eating species, or a carnivorous type, then OK. Otherwise I would not add competition to the Otos. Set up a different tank for the other algae eating Loroicariad.

Yeah, I'm going to use the lower 20L for a nice L-pleco and some lemon or rummy nosed tetra.

Diana said:
I do not find a 20 long has a top/middle/ bottom. Not tall enough.
Plenty of floor space, so the dwarf Cories will enjoy it. They are just right for that size tank.
But the mid-level and upper level fish will pretty much be in the same area.

I would have thought the same thing but even with 10 neons swimming around the lower middle and the cories at the VERY bottom the top of the tank seems empty.

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