Thanks for the tips! These guys are really cute and a lot of fun when they aren't breaking your heart.

 

What is your pH? If they are wild caught in a stream with a 4.5 pH, there's not much you are going to be able to do to keep them alive long term.

I would love to get some, but instead I got some SAEs. Even though wild caught, its clear they are very adaptable and hardy.

 

I'm not sure what my pH is, I haven't kept fish in a few years and I don't want to deal with Oto casualties again. I'd think about it if they were captive bred, but finding some for sale is like going on a unicorn hunt.

 

Day 4 update: 1 oto death. No outward sign of distress, just stopped moving, then started curling and tilting to side.
I took this as an urgent sign to do something further. I sensed one or two others were flagging as well. Here's what I have done.

a) Another partial water change. [Water a little cloudy from bacterial bloom - so unstable water parameters initially have likely caused distress. Polyfilter likely helping.]

b) Added another internal filter with mature media. Previously only had a 10g filter and an air bubbler to distribute water - thinking the quarantine tank only has 10 gallons - but there was detritus settling on the bottom, which I suspect means not enough filtration and flow. The otos seem to enjoy a strong flow of water.

c) Seems that one or two otos have not touched the veggies (yet) and may not take to them - just in case I got some marbles and put them in a jar with dirty tank water and placed in the window sill, to grow some more algae. Will deposit the marbles in tank in a few days. Sheesh.

Recovery this morning! - the 7 remaining otos are swimming freely and are grazing. I have been feeding asparagus, cucumber, and leek (I think). One or more has taken to all, but a few seem unsure of veggie still (see above). Also put a little Repashy Soilent clump in there, which has disappeared (possibly dispersed and sucked up filter - hoping not). All algae in tank is pretty much gone. Otos are ravenous eaters when healthy.

Food insight: has been said many times by others > veggies went untouched for 24 hours even though I had cooked and blanched them. So removing prior to 24 hours may not be a good call. On the other hand, I should watch for when to remove them before they deteriorate too much and spike the nitrate - I think it depends on the veggie and how soft and chewed up they look. Also oto appetite may depend on how they are feeling and other available food. On Day 1 the cucumber was gone within 24 hours (maybe pre-water condition deterioration?). On Day 3, not so much.

Okay, I do have a day job so am moving on to other activities.

 

My otos are omnivorous and although they are quickly onto courgette or crushed peas, they are also are partial to the fishmeal pellets and algae wafers that I feed to the other residents.

 

If you have freeze-dried tubifex, my oto's LOVE those. They'll push the cory's outta the way to get to them.

 

Mine do eat the Repashy Super Green and Soilent Green.

 

Interesting I might try that (tubifex) next time... I recently got 20 otos, 17 made it through 4 weeks of quarantine. The 3 deaths all were within 2 days and those 3 were looking emaciated from the start. I only changed their water once a week, and dosed their tank with metro / prazi at the start and some metro laced food in the first week as well. Their tank was full of loose stems and a piece of driftwood and I fed them repashy, veggie sticks, algae wafers, spirulina powder, and some veggies, but they practically ignored the veggies for stem plants and the processed foods, and I can't be sure more than half ever really ate from the stuff I added. I think half made it just off bio film /algae. They pooped... a lot. Some of them came out looking preggo, but I'm pretty sure they were just fat.

 

If you are getting a bacterial bloom then you tank either wasn't ready or you're over feeding. You might be better with sticking to the rapashy so you aren't polluting the water - try pouring it onto a piece of wood when you mix it, then add that to the tank so it stays in position whist they feed if they are slow. It will stay stable for a fairly long time.

You might find a wider flatter surface than marbles is better for growing algae. Pebbles/river rocks are good. Haven't tried marbles though so they may work ok.

Cappata leaves work well, as they can be safely left to disintegrate/be munched without polluting the water. Usually takes a couple of days for them to soak and the Otos to start on them if you drop them in dry, but a little boiling would probably speed that up.

Are you sure leeks are ok to feed? I don't know about fish but they are avoided as food for a lot of terrestrial animals.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I think I had a mini cycle happen on day two. The tank was cycled for months but I think that the combo of food and critters made it happen again. I Think I have it under control now. I am not sure whether the veggie piece I had in there was a leek or something else. Now that I think about it I think it was the bottom of a broccoli floret. It was frozen from the freezer from a few months ago. Anyways the otos seem to like it. Interesting idea about the repashy feeding method. If I only had a piece of wood lying around! I also tried an algae wafer and they are liking that. About the omnivorous oto: is it not true that one should limit proteins for these guys?

 

That's good. I know everyone says how hard they are to feed but I've never had trouble with them taking algae wafers. You can stick the rapashy to anything that has a rough surface - I've found rocks a bit smooth but I've seen terracotta feeders that are scored flat disks. Wood is just good because of the grain. You just pour/drop it on before it sets. Dipped wooden skewers might work? Mine are pretty good at just chasing a cube around the tank.

I guess as they are 'aufwuchs' feeders it's really a mix of algae and teeny critters so a bit of non vegetable matter would make sense. Mine seem to get excited whatever I'm feeding the tank with but it's hard to tell what they are actually eating.

 

Watching my L236 tank they are all over this bottom scratcher repashy for my late night feeding...

 

They seem to like my Repashy Soilent chunks as well. Some new observations after 6 days. Seven of 8 otos still alive, feeding, reasonably alert, no clamped tails. All good. Watching a little bit of faded coloring -- still brown, not all-over pale, but a little lighter than usual and just slightly reddish hue around the head for one or two of them - this has never been a good sign for me so I am concerned.

>> Inserting new leaves from an established tank + not letting otos get too thin/dormant. One or two otos are not eating a lot from prepared foods and look thin, although not emaciated. Also, all of the otos sometimes look a bit lethargic during the day - just not moving a lot. I don't think this is a water quality issue and I tentatively do not think they are sick (but see some signs above that I am watching).

My evolving theory as I said earlier is that otos really should be moving fairly continuously, and if they are not it is NOT because they are shy or nocturnal but because they aren't 100% well or aren't finding enough to eat. I'm not saying an oto can't hang in one place for a half hour or more and still be healthy - they can - but in my observation they are more active than people think during the day -- and in the past, I was content not to do anything when they just stayed in one place all day, thinking they are feeding more at night - this didn't work out for me.

I am noticing that whenever I insert new leaves from an established plant tank, the otos perk up and start shimmying around toward the food source, then stay active for longer.

> Some of these otos seem fine adapting to prepared foods and veggies. Others - especially the smaller ones - are relying more on algae and don't give aufwuch about prepared foods. (That was a joke.) So providing at least a modicum of fresh algae/aufwuch source each day *seems* to help keep the younger guys afloat. I also have another evolving theory that if you provide a little familiar algae source, then their appetite stays up and carries over better to prepared foods. The thing I really don't want (and have seen before) is a hunger strike despite all manner of prepared foods being provided - leading to downward spiral and death.

 

I got 5 otos almost 2 months ago, haven't done a single water change on the tank (just top offs), and haven't fed them once, just let the light run a bit longer in the start to encourage a bit of algae growth. I've had otos once before as well, and I have to say my experience back then was also generally that they were quite hardy.

 

I am envious of you. That hasn't been my experience to date. It's been constant work for me. Since I have had problems in the past, I decided to rule out "bad batch" or "victim of bad transport to LFS" and get super-hardy otos from a reliable source -- to see if my problems are my own creation or not. I'm disappointed my water quality wasn't quite perfect to start out, but now I think I have stability and perhaps the road will be easier from here on.

Some people like you do say that otos' fragility is overstated and they have no problems - especially after the first few weeks. But judging from the internet chatter i think many people do have problems. I'm not yet in the clear. Also I happen to have a 10 gallon quarantine with no substrate or live plants (only my plant cuttings from the other tank and some fake plants/wood to provide some cover) - so very challenging to begin with; while the glass was covered with algae to start, it's impossible to keep enough algae in there to keep this many otos fed after the first few days even with the lights on full time - I think it will be easier to keep an algae stock going in my permanent tank. I'm curious how big your tank is and whether it's full of live plants. And did you quarantine to start in a different tank with different conditions?

 

It's 10 gallons, and I'd say moderately planted. I didn't do any quarantine but I also only had a single guppy in there before them. Now it's the guppy, 2 GBR, and the 5 otos. Here's a photo: IMG_0282.jpg

As you can see, it's kinda just left to do its own thing.

 

I quarantine in a 30L (about 8g) but not bare - established with gravel base, wood and plenty of plants. Only a few at a time though - in hindsight I'd do a big batch of otos in one go. My quarantine tank is basically a regular tank I just move fish though - that way it's cycled, has plenty of bacteria, algae for shrimp or otos and good plant cover for nervous fish. It just means any issue is contained to that batch of fish.

It also means I can match my quarantine tank water to my LFS water (hard tap) and then I have weeks to adjust them to my tank water (RO).

My otos are fairly inactive during the day. They wiggle around when the sun hits the tank first thing, chill during the day and then get active again in the evening. I wonder if part of that is the regular evening meals though - means they don't have to spend all day hunting for algae. Or it could be my lights start to dim then and they like it less bright.

 

Ah the fully furnished quarantine tank. Sometimes I worry about substrate and plants if I ever had to medicate… Or when I need to break down a tank if I am not planning on having anything in there for a while. But it sure would be nice to have that when you have otos.

I continue to notice that the otos are dormant/still whenever they know that there isn't that much food around. This goes for day or night. Every time I throw in a couple of fresh leaves w algae in there they start to perk up and swim around even when the tank is brightly lit. This seems to be serving me well, especially since a few of them aren't as fond of veggie or wafer or Repashy.

Nice tank Uddeball.

 

Only thing I've had to medicate for is ich/white spot. Didn't have a problem with the plants/substrate, though I did do a good syphon of the surface of it to help. I sort of look at it like any other fish tank. If your main tank had a problem you'd treat that plants/substrate and all and once it was cleared up continue on happily without clearing everything out after. Most of the plants are off cuts not unique, gravel and rocks could be scrubbed so I could nuke it if I really really had to.

I expect what I'll do when I get to stage of no more plans for more fish is pop a half dozen small ones in and if I did want it empty again to quarantine new ones then I could temporarily house them in the main tank. Might just be an excuse to have multiple tanks

Glad the otos are doing well

 

Thanks for this post! In a wild-eyed fit, I just got 6 otos, a cobalt stiphodon goby, and a Florida flagfish for a 16g hair algae-infested tank (it was that, or smash the thing with a hammer--I was sick of it). I will be curious to see what works for you with the otos. So far mine have survived almost a week, but I've been warned they could still drop at any time. I wonder if it isn't internal parasites that do them in?

 

Sorry to post a bleak update here, but I'm pretty depressed about it. In the last week, 1 oto died (reasons unknown). The water started turning green - algae bloom. I did partial water changes daily and turned down the lights, but it was getting hard to see the fish. After 3 weeks in quarantine, I transferred the 6 healthy otos out of the quarantine tank into my planted tank, which is currently stocked with ember tetras, amano shrimp, 1 nerite snail, and 1 SAE. Parameters were good, and the fish should have been acclimated to the water because in the past few days I had been gradually putting some of the mature tank water into the quarantine. I put a Poly Filter in the tank to smooth over the transition.....

First 48 hours - things seemed ok. They otos were not swimming around lazily and freely, so they were stressed. But I was hoping for the best. I saw signs of eating - it was an algae bonanza for a while for them. Then. After 3 days, two of the otos were floating on the top of the tank, dead. The next day, two more were dead. Now I only have 2 left out of the original 8, and I have no hope they will survive either. They don't look happy.

EPIC FAIL!

The whole point of this post is so that others, and I, can learn what to do better next time. I will provide any clues I can as to what went wrong this time. Clearly, I need help because despite all my precautions and lessons learned along the way, I have not succeeded.

1. The otos that died were well fed. In fact, some were fat. I wonder - too well fed? Did they have indigestion caused by some water parameter change or stress from the move? Death through constipation?
2. Ammonia spike? Not so sure about this - the Poly filter doesn't show the bright yellow color for ammonia. All the other fish are swimming around without sign of stress. But I think an undetectable ammonia spike could be to blame because a few of the amano shrimp have died in the last few days along with the otos. Maybe it was not a good idea to add all 6 at the same time. I thought I was ready though - the tank has plenty of plants and I have two mature filters that have been going for many months, plus the Poly Filter, and the tank was already stocked for months with a dozen tetras, the SAE... The nitrates and nitrite levels are undetectable right now.
3. Injury from the water circulator? Probably not but throwing it out there. It is near the top of the tank and 3 of the 4 dead otos were floating at the top of the tank (which is fairly unusual in my experience - the corpses usually aren't so buoyant - maybe it's just the flow of this tank).
4. Disease? I didn't see ich spots or any signs of disease before they died - not even clamped fins. I did notice in the quarantine that some of the poop was getting long - but it was dark, not white or clear, so I wasn't too worried.
5. Co2 problem? I had turned down the co2 to give them time to get used to it, but I wonder if the fluctuations in ph are too much for these guys.
6. Back to the amanos: why did I see several amanos die around when the otos died? Seems like it has to do with either the veggies I was feeding that these guys grazed on, or a water condition issue - like ammonia. These are more susceptible than the others to slight water condition problems.
7. Stress from two tank moves within 1 month. I could have left them in the quarantine for another few weeks. I moved them after 3 weeks because they seemed healthy and I was about to have a string of visiting guests use the room where the tank was and I didn't want to be having to get in there while it was occupied. Sigh.

Larger issue: this tank has now seen otos and shrimp and snails die inexplicably, while the tetras and SAE are doing very well. Something is not healthy in there for certain species - I am still struggling for an answer. Maybe in a few days I'll reflect on some more things that could be harming them. I'm just sad about it all right now. I really tried hard to keep them healthy.

 

Sorry to hear that, usually if they make the first couple of weeks they do well

The fact you had a bacterial and then algae bloom suggest there could have been something up with the quarantine tank/water. Which may have in turn caused stress or effected their immune system so even transferring them to the more stable tank water may have been too late.

I'm surprised you had such high death in the tank itself too though. That you lost shrimps/snails which are also sensitive - I think you are right to be concerned something more going on.

Otos are like cories in that they gulp air sometimes so they are more likely to float when they expire.

 

Another oto died. It got bloated belly and that was that. So I have one lonely oto left. So much for keeping them in quantities! Another few days have passed and I am still pondering what happened. And also why my amano shrimp happen to be dying too. I think I'm choosing to think of these as unrelated things.

For the otos, clearly the switch to their permanent home did not go well. There must have been some significant difference in water quality that was not smoothed over during transition and acclimation. Maybe they got sick and could no longer digest and process food. Also my quarantine environment was not as ideal as it could have been-- lesson learned there....

For the shrimp--i actually found two on my floor yesterday-- I am wondering about the CO2, the dosing of PPS pro macro aand micro nutrients, the use of CaCl and epsom salt to harden water, and overly quick or voluminous water changes as possible reasons. Hard to figure out which of these is the most likely culprit. Thoughts from those who keep shrimp in high tech planted tanks? (Apologies - I know this was/is an oto related conversation ...)

 

....

 

Have you come across this article before? It is one of the most comprehensive articles of otocinclus care I have come across.

Many have problems acclimating Oto's to the aquarium- I will not reiterate the reasons why. It is all in here.

TFH Magazine Forum ? View topic - The Otocinclus Paper [Work In Progress]