No love from the moss-gods...

4093 Views 16 Replies 8 Participants Last post by drownedgod, Mar 7, 2017

drownedgod

Discussion Starter · Mar 5, 2017

3

Hello Community,

Hoping someone can advise with ongoing difficulty growing flame moss and peacock moss in my tank. I've tried different batches of moss, configurations, and various parameter tweaks--but keep getting the same results: moss goes yellow, seems to die off in places, and gradually becomes covered in what I presume to be opportunistic hair algae. I have tried +/- changes to temperature, light period, PH, CO2, fertilizers, water flow (upgraded filter, to increase splash)--also tried different batches of moss tied to driftwood in different quantities, depths. etc.

Aquarium:
10 Gallon lightly planted tank (estd. 1 year+)
Shiruba XB-305 external canister filter (sponge, carbon, bio-media)
Temperature: 75° F
CO2: 1-2 BpM
Lighting: 1.8 WpG [2 Azoo Flexi-Mini HCRI LED (9 Watts each, 6700k)]
Photoperiod: Total 12 hours per day) w/ 2 1-hour rest periods
Dosing Flourish comprehensive supplements per instructions
Periodically dosing Flourish Excel per instructions
Weekly 30% water changes
Twinstar Nano M3 sterilizer

Levels:
PH: 7.1
Ammonia: .25
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Phosphate: 0
KH: 9

Plants:
Rotala rotundiifolia
Dwarf baby tears (Hemianthus callitrichoides)
Utricularia graminifolia
Flame moss
Peacock moss

Livestock:
14 neon tetras
1 Ottocinclus

I've attached photos of the previous batch of moss (thick bushels) which I subsequently removed, as well as the new moss added 4 days ago, which was bright emerald green going in and is already showing loss of color, withering.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

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dukydaf

· #2 · Mar 5, 2017

drownedgod said:
CO2: 1-2 BpM
Lighting: 1.8 WpG [2 Azoo Flexi-Mini HCRI LED (9 Watts each, 6700k)]
Photoperiod: Total 12 hours per day) w/ 2 1-hour rest periods
Dosing Flourish comprehensive supplements per instructions

Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Phosphate: 0

Hello, while most mosses do grow slower and are able to adapt to low nutrient conditions, they do need nutrients especially when exposed to high light. I would say the problem is with the fertilization regiment. Since you have good light, CO2 and the current plant selection I would recommend dosing using Estimative Index.
The Estimative Index of Dosing, or No Need for Test Kits - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report

The Flourish comprehensive is a very diluted solution and other plants such as Rotala are likely removing the nutrients from the water before the moss. This results in starvation from macro nutrients.
Outside this, not really a problem for moss, but 1-2 bubbles per minute sounds like very little for CO2 injection in a 10G.

Reactions: 2

ed.junior

· #3 · Mar 5, 2017

2

You need nitrates, phosphates and potassium. That is what you are missing (NPK). Learn the Estimative Index theory. That is the easiest way to good growth, even if you decide not to use EI afterwards. Adapt it to your needs and you will have a lot to work with.

I have been growing moss easily with EI.

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Turningdizzy

· #4 · Mar 5, 2017

I am thinking Excel might not be good for moss in full dose. Moss also doesn't care for a lot of light. Can you use something to shade the moss a bit, or reduce the light period to, say, 8 hours with a 2 or 3 hour siesta in the middle of the 8 hours? I know that moss in high light will get really cranky sometimes and all that dying moss is a great place for the algae to get a foothold. Others will undoubtedly see things that I missed, but that is all my tired brain can handle right now.

Reactions: 1

BettaBettas

· #5 · Mar 5, 2017

ed.junior said:
You need nitrates, phosphates and potassium. That is what you are missing (NPK). Learn the Estimative Index theory. That is the easiest way to good growth, even if you decide not to use EI afterwards. Adapt it to your needs and you will have a lot to work with.

I have been growing moss easily with EI.

omg is that your tank @ed.junior ???? holy crap :surprise:

ed.junior

· #6 · Mar 5, 2017

BettaBettas said:
omg is that your tank @ed.junior ???? holy crap :surprise:

Yeah, thats is my tank. When I say that EI works, I mean it. I had a terrible tank, really ugly. Check the timelapse...

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BettaBettas

· #7 · Mar 5, 2017

I gotta do some research on this EI stuff, have no clue what it is but I keep hearing about it. Stunning time lapse ed.junior bravo

Reactions: 1

ed.junior

· #8 · Mar 5, 2017 (Edited by Moderator)

Turningdizzy said:
I am thinking Excel might not be good for moss in full dose. Moss also doesn't care for a lot of light. Can you use something to shade the moss a bit, or reduce the light period to, say, 8 hours with a 2 or 3 hour siesta in the middle of the 8 hours? I know that moss in high light will get really cranky sometimes and all that dying moss is a great place for the algae to get a foothold. Others will undoubtedly see things that I missed, but that is all my tired brain can handle right now.

I tested Glutaraldehyde in all ranges. From 1ml per 30l, up to 1ml per 3l.
This would mean my 60 liters tank had daily doses ranging from 2ml up to 20ml.
Many plants do not like, but Vesicularia Montagnei and Riccardia Chamedryfolia have NO issues with it.

Also, moss grows great in high light. I have close to 200 PAR, 10 hours per day, and my moss wall grows like a weed. A siesta is up to you. It is all about the balance. High ferts (10ppm NO3, 3.5ppm PO4, 10ppm K and 0.3ppm Fe-EDTA, 3x per week) and a 1.5 pH drop is enough for me.

Have you ever seen moss pearl?

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BettaBettas said:
I gotta do some research on this EI stuff, have no clue what it is but I keep hearing about it. Stunning time lapse ed.junior bravo

Thanks man

My journal can be found here:
https://glassboxgardeners.com/threads/switch-to-estimative-index.581/

And this is where all began:
http://www.barrreport.com/forum/bar...tive-index-of-dosing-or-no-need-for-test-kits

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Seattle_Aquarist

· #9 · Mar 5, 2017

drownedgod said:
Periodically dosing Flourish Excel per instructions

Hi drownedgod,

+1 for Turningdizzy's comment; I found that dosing Excel/glutaraldehyde caused me to lose a lot of moss varieties, some were somewhat expensive.

drownedgod

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 6, 2017

Thanks for feedback

Thanks Everyone. I have some work ahead of me in both understanding and procuring supplies before I put the estimated index theory into practice. It's good to know at least there is something I haven't tried.

drownedgod

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 6, 2017

Thanks again, Ed. When searching for KNO3 on Amazon, I find these DIY kits that are split only into "Macros" and "Micros" (https://www.amazon.com/NilocG-Aquat...&qid=1488760563&sr=8-1&keywords=aquarium+KNO3). I've dug around a few EI threads but don't see where to buy isolated KNO3 or KH2PO4 (I have GH boost). Any direction there?

Reactions: 1

ed.junior

· #12 · Mar 6, 2017

Start with NiloCG stuff. It is okay.
They will be already pre-balanced.

Later you can dive deeper.
You can find the salts at www.aquariumfertilizer.com for instance.

ed.junior

· #13 · Mar 6, 2017

Check the threads I mentioned. It is important you understand why it works.

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geisterwald

· #14 · Mar 6, 2017

ed.junior said:
Start with NiloCG stuff. It is okay.
They will be already pre-balanced.

Later you can dive deeper.
You can find the salts at Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Home for instance.

NiloCG sells the separate salts too... Plus he's a TPT member (wouldn't surprise me if whoever's behind the site you linked is too, but)!

DennisSingh

· #15 · Mar 6, 2017

You do not need to dose anything right now, your soil is new? I'm guessing ammonium burn, increase water change and water change frequency my suggestion.

ed.junior

· #16 · Mar 6, 2017 (Edited)

StrungOut said:
You do not need to dose anything right now, your soil is new? I'm guessing ammonium burn, increase water change and water change frequency my suggestion.

If you are using ADA Aqua Soil, then this is very true. You should do daily 50% or more water changes for the first couple weeks, when using ADA AS.

If your aquarium is using an inert substrate, or has been properly cycled (2 months+), then skip this.

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drownedgod

Discussion Starter · #17 · Mar 7, 2017

Thanks again, ed.junior and Geisterwald. I'll dig into the EI method and report back on the results.

Bump: I'm using ADA Amazonia but it's been cycled for 1 year+

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